Not havin a go or anything like that but could someone explain your love of guns!!
As a brit its something alien to me! Im ex forces so im not scared of them or anythin an can see the fun of shooting ranges ( i used to love excercises an runnin round firing blanks) , however ive also seen first hand what they do to people in the wrong hands!
For that reason i would never want 1 around the house!
You know I'm not sure what you are trying to ask... or if you're asking anything...
But I have a gun for a couple of reasons...
1) I would like to finish off my Grandfathers old collections with new peices.. MY Grand father started a collection of all old peices that are locked up in a save deposit account.. and I would like to reopen this collection and continue it.
2) I love the range... I love going to the range and blasting off about 200-500 rounds in one trip to relieve stress that work has built up on me. Its safe and fun. Plus I like to see how I shoot from a day to day or week to week basis. Its more as a hobby.
3) I live in a rough neighborhood... So there is one peice that I do carry. My car alarm goes off about 2 times a week.. and I live in what some call the "ghetto".
4) I have a concealed weapons permit. I have taken several classes on having a concealed weapon. I know when to carry, when not to carry, when to pull, when not to pull, when and where to shoot, what to do in almost every sticky civilian situation. Im also currently in the United States Army, so I do have the proper training on holding and handling a fire arm.
But you are right,,, there are many people out there that shouldn't even have the thoughts of owning a weapon. But it happens... I guess our only bet is to stay out of that persons wraith and hope that they only hurt themselfs and no one else. Sometimes Darwins point is right... Natural selection, and survival of the fitest.
Last edited on Tue Jan 11th, 2005 11:24 pm by fokuzsport
1 an 2 i totally understand, sport shooting an collection.
However;
3, I dont exactly live like royalty, my car alarm goes off but i dont feel the need to grab a gun to sort it out? the keyfob to stop the alarm an maybe the dog to scare the kids away!
4, yeah im sure you are very well trained with concealed weapons but why do you feel the need to carry a weapon in everyday life?? An like i say im ex British forces an carried weapons on regular occasions but that was work i had it to kill somebody that threatened my Queen an country not some1 that set my car alarm off!
i dont know, maybe us brits just dont get it!
Last edited on Tue Jan 11th, 2005 11:56 pm by RS-Steve
3, I dont exactly live like royalty, my car alarm goes off but i dont feel the need to grab a gun to sort it out? the keyfob to stop the alarm an maybe the dog to scare the kids away!
No I don't need it to sort it out.. but at least I have it for that ole saying... JUST IN CASE. You never know.. I may run out there one time to see whats ok and have some hoodlem standing behind me or waiting in a bush with some objec that can be used against me to harm me.... and my fists simply wont do the scaring.
4, yeah im sure you are very well trained with concealed weapons but why do you feel the need to carry a weapon in everyday life?? An like i say im ex British forces an carried weapons on regular occasions but that was work i had it to kill somebody that threatened my Queen an country not some1 that set my car alarm off!
I never said that I carry anywhere... I never said that I carry at all.. I just simply said that I have a concealed permit. If I know I will be going to a rough spot or on long trips I may conceal it in my focus.... but thats only if I'm by myself or I feel extremely uncomfortable to where I will be heading. Like for instance.. your car breaks down on the highway, middle of no where, very few cars, and its dark as hell... you have no protection what so ever.... you never know man. Its all about being responsible and making the wise desicion. If I am ever in a predicament and I have a fear for my life, with the law at my back, I will defend myself. I live by this motto- You can never be to safe. "Better to be safe than sorry!"
RS-Steve wrote: Not havin a go or anything like that but could someone explain your love of guns!!
As a brit its something alien to me! Im ex forces so im not scared of them or anythin an can see the fun of shooting ranges ( i used to love excercises an runnin round firing blanks) , however ive also seen first hand what they do to people in the wrong hands!
For that reason i would never want 1 around the house! I was born in the U.S., and have lived here for 63 years. I'm as much at a loss to explain it as you are.
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Captain J wrote: Thats an easy question to answer. Its so we can shoot people that we don't like.Actually, that's the only logical response I can think of.
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because we can. The two weapons that I own: a Walther P22, and a Winchester 30-30 rifle, both have their reasons. The rifle was handed down from my great-great grandfather, it is in excellent working condition and has a serial number beginning with two zero's. So it is very very old, however, works very very well. It has been used for deer hunting in my family for many years. The P22, is both for occasionally "finishing" the job while hunting, and range shooting. Though in a pinch, say a burgular in my apartment, or a threat to my self, it could be used to mame someone pretty good. In my area a simple call the police may not yield a result for up to 30 minutes due to sheer distance they would have to travel. Maine is a large state with not enough law enforcement officials. I'm not saying I'd use it for vigilante justice, but to protect myself if I ever found myself in danger. Luckily it's never had to be used for that purpose.
Hi RS Steve
I live in Canada. Regulations are different here. Sidearms are for the most part illegal and permits are difficult to obtain. Having said that, there is no shortage of arms of all sorts in this country. I still own my shotgun which has brought Grouse to my table for many years. I've had sidearms when out in the bush either as backups or simply because they were easier to carry than a rifle. The idea of having a sidearm in an urban environment is alien to most Canadians. In a rural environment it can be a different story. There are parts of this country where there are still critters that would enjoy having my old body for a snack and when I venture in those areas there is always someone around willing to provide a loaner. I lived in one isolated community for a few years. The local police knew everyone and the unspoken rules were that you could carry if you were headed out in to the bush or on your way back. You wouldn't even dream of stopping in for a beer on the way home if you were carrying. Nobody did and I never heard of anyone ever doing so. I suspect that if anyone ever did break the rules that the police would be the least of the transgressor's worries. If you carry an unauthorised sidearm in a Canadian city you are looking at serious charges.
Guess it comes down to a different cultures. Firearms are just tools here. Never found them to be particularly fun.
South of the border the right to carry arms has a historical significance which I'm sure MrV or someone else could shed light upon.
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A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams...John Barrymore
Here in Oklahoma I had some CRAZY old pawn shop owner try to sell me a ww2 era .50 chain gun for "protection". He also had a functional cannon and a blunderbuss. There was also the tusk he said would make a good living room decoration. I think for protection we should all have swords in our houses. Someone breaks in, you hack off a limb and call the cops. If they don't bleed to death then at least they're marked for life. Nah. Then they'll just get on disability and legally rob us.
Its illegal to shoot a burgler leaving your house in most states. Personally I think breaking and entering is a offense of the greatest degree and a thief that gets away with his life is lucky. If i ever catch someone breaking into my car again i will try my hardest to take something off their body like a finger or eye. Something that'll dissuade them from trying it again.
Captain J wrote: Its illegal to shoot a burgler leaving your house in most states. Personally I think breaking and entering is a offense of the greatest degree and a thief that gets away with his life is lucky. If i ever catch someone breaking into my car again i will try my hardest to take something off their body like a finger or eye. Something that'll dissuade them from trying it again.
Your right, it is illegal to shoot anyone stealing something in your house. You are only able to shoot anyone in a defensive manner ONLY IF YOU HAVE REASON TO FEAR YOU LIFE.
RS-Steve wrote: I just use a cricket bat or a golf club!
Im sorry to keep repeating myself but why do you feel the need to shoot some1 if they break in!
Surely as soon as they are rumbled they flee, or is that just brit burglers??
RS-Steve: I think the answer is that in North America the odds are that the burglar is armed. Even when I was younger I doubt that I could've hit something moving upwards of 300 metres per second with a bat.
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A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams...John Barrymore
My love of guns has been present since I was a child. Shooting sports are great, they teach responsibility and skill. You say that you have seen what guns do in the hands of the wrong people. Guns sit in the hands of people, guns don't do anything. People shoot people. I grew up in Washington state, the statistics show that 1 out of every 25 people in seattle carry a gun with a legal concealed weapons permit. Here in Oklahoma, it's less, but very easy to get the permit. I have a shotgun in two rooms of my house, if anyone ever breaks in, I feel threatened, I will shoot them. They are actively attacking me and my property, and I'll fight them until one of us is dead. I also carry a pistol nearly every day. I've yet to have to shoot anyone, but there have been several instances in my life where I was not armed, in which case, if I were, people and property would not have been damaged or hurt. My friends and family all know I carry, and they all feel safer every day knowing it. I suppose a feeling of security and self-protection is my main reason.
A lot of bad guys do attack people with knives and guns. If I am not armed, I am a target, I am going to be hurt or robbed. If I am armed, I will not. That's it in a nutshell.
I don't think guns are for everyone, but more bad guys have them than good guys. The laws here in the states say that anyone who is a felon cannot purchase or be in posession of a gun of any sort. But they do. Laws also say that you must wait a minimum of 10 days to purchase any handgun, they run a background check on everyone. I think the US is known thruout the world as a bunch of gun-toting crazy people. It's not like that at all. The media I'm sure has a lot to do with it. I have several friends who carry guns daily, none of which I would ever consider in any way loony tunes or dangerous.
I shoot a gun at least once a week. At work I shoot at animal predators. at the range I take and participate in all sorts of gun safety courses, shooting competitions and classes. I own several handguns and rifles and shotguns. None of which can be grabbed by any bad guys and used to do harm to anyone.
I can go on for hours, haha. I welcome any conversation/discussion/debate about gun ownership
RS-Steve wrote: I just use a cricket bat or a golf club!
Im sorry to keep repeating myself but why do you feel the need to shoot some1 if they break in!
Surely as soon as they are rumbled they flee, or is that just brit burglers??
i'm a bit mixed about this bud...my heart tells me we are so concerned with firearms because its one of our constitutional rights so its more tradition but my mind tells me something else...we are constantly bombarded by hollywood which shows us images of people shooting people then giving off some one liner ....i think this inevitably plays a roll in what alot of people feel. Do i have a handgun?...yup...only for home protection. i do not have a concealed weapons permit and i do not feel like shooting anybody....well..at least not today....my father is a firearms instructor with the Iowa City police department..which he has been an officer since 1979...havinf a loaded handgun in the house was something i always lived with...but my father also taught me a couple of things....1)if you grab it be prepared to use it. otherwise leave it be. 2) make sure you use it as a last resort.ie: cornered in a bedroom and perp is advancing on you. ...oh and btw sometimes people enter your house for other reasons than to steal....
When Europeans first came to this country, they were explorers in a totally unknown land. They were a pretty darn hardy breed, and the reason they came here, (Columbus not withstanding), was to conquer the place & establish their permanent settlements here. They not only wanted to have permanent "bases" here, but they also wanted to exploit the resources. They knew there were people already here--Native Americans, and who knows who else--and that they might encounter wildlife that might want to invite them for lunch. That necessitated having weapons.
Even though the Spanish were arguably the 1st Europeans here, it sure didn't take long for other nations to follow, all of them with pretty much the same objectives. The disparate Europeans nations didn't like each other to begin with, and some were outwardly at war, or close to it. This again prompted folks to have weapons at the ready.
As westward expansion began, and the Europeans claimed more lands for themselves that were previously inhabited by natives, the natives objected. (The nerve of those people) They requested the Europeans not to trespass on their lands, and when the white men told them “to take a hike”, the game was on again. Indians attacked, whites retaliated, etc., etc. Bottom line is, the Native Americans never had a chance. They were essentially just above a stone age culture, and the Europeans were quite advanced. They had guns, cannons, horses, advanced tactics, etc.
The people who voluntarily came here were, for the most part, a rough & tumble lot. Really tough, brave folks with a lust for wilderness living and exploring. At that time in history, as well as now, those were the people who were most likely to be armed. For a looong time after that, people who followed them here were in that same mindset. They naturally passed these beliefs and lifestyles along to their children, and so forth down through the generations. This perpetuated an attitude and lifestyle that still persists in some measure.
When the nation gained its independence, one of the provisions in the Constitution was that the people would be allowed to bear arms. (That doesn’t mean wear short-sleeved shirts) After the bitter war with England, people were afraid that they might be re-attacked, or that a new government gone awry, would virtually enslave them as King George had. Having weapons was, at that time, seen as being essential.
Not too long after that, the War of 1812 came along. Since these wars were fought on “our” turf, people needed guns. That same for the Civil War, and, of course, “winning the west.”
The culture of being explorers, adventurers, and totally self-sufficient has been deeply engrained in the American psyche. There are so many guns in America that it has made it one of the most dangerous countries in which to live. Compare the murder and/or gunshot deaths and injuries to other industrial, developed nations, and you might be amazed. The NRA is an EXTREMELY powerful organization and lobbying power, which insist on maintaining the right to own guns according ton the Constitution, which incidentally, was written some 229 years ago. That doesn’t mean we should throw the Constitution out. –JMO- I think we should take a look at some of the provisions and possibly amend those, which no longer apply.
The gun question is a really tough and emotionally charged one among U.S. citizens. It’s like a huge snowball rolling downhill, and nobody is quite sure how to fix it, of even if it does need fixing. But what I said in the above paragraph about statistics should definitely give one pause.
Last edited on Fri Jan 14th, 2005 01:08 pm by Mr. Versatile
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It's simple, this country was founded on certain things, and the right to bear arms is one of them.
Where is the evidence that supports the statement about Europeans "knowing" there was people here before they built the boats to travel abroad? The Norse and the rest of the Euro-Anglo's didnt even know where they were going, so for them to already know what to expect and have some pre-planned and premeditated idea of attack is absurd.
For those who are reading the incorrect history books, the Spanish were not the first to "land on" North American soil, it was the Vikings (Norse), about 200 years before Chris Columbus.
As far as being highly successful in the building of weapons, the Norse for instance, needed to do so because Christianity was ravaging their country and continent, and they had protect themselves from religious invaders. Most of their beliefs and way of life was erased by Christianity.
As far as the need to bear arms, it was necessary for survival. Survival of the fittest. With people like the Spanish (see Conquistadors for example) running amuck, and invading foreign lands and wiping out ancient civilizations, bearing arms was for the most part was probably a good idea. When a foreign people shows up in your homeland, people who convince you they are "god like", then start to slaughter you off once they have your trust....you might want to atleast consider making something to protect yourself.
As far as the Indian argument goes, I feel no guilt. It was a numbers thing. The Indians fended off and slaughtered many Europeans, there is actually a memorial in my home town, a spot where the Indians who lived here slaughtered thousands of Vikings who had landed here. The Indians did their fair share of "evil things", including disembowling people. I ofcourse dont blame them, because they were just doing what they thought they had to do to save themselves from invaders. But Euro's did not have some thought out plan to come here and wipe out everything that moved. I feel no guilt for what my ancestors did, because if it wasnt for them building boats and exploring and being the most advanced people on Earth, I wouldnt be here typing this. I wouldnt exist. None of us would. No guilt.
The right to arms is neccesary for a properly balanced and free Republic. The counter-weight of the Government is an organized and law-abiding militia. A free people needs to be able to protect itself. You need to be able to protect your family, your land, your home, etc.. But I do believe there are certain weapons that should not be allowed to be produced and/or available to the public. There's no need for someone down the street to have an uzi or other high powered assault weapon under their bed or in their closet.
