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SyntheticShield
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| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Year/Model: | 2001 Pont. Grand Prix GTP ... | | Occupation: | Telecommunications | | Interests: | Storm chasing/Photography | | Male/Female: | Male |
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Posted: Tue Jun 28th, 2005 04:09 am |
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Over the weekend I decided to replace my battery cause I had the old one in there for some time. I went ahead and splurged on an Optima red top battery, no biggie.
Well the terminals on the optima are reversed from the OEM battery so I had work some slack in the wires to hook everything back up. I had planned on adding in larger ground and power wires so this was no biggie as I figured it would be temporary. Boy, I had no idea just how temporary.
I leave to go to work today and as Im driving I smell something that isnt right, but didnt think much of it as it seemed to go away. Then the car had a sudden and quick loss of power but recovered and kept on going so I figured I didnt get one of the wires back tight enough and was working loose. Not a mile later I hear this sound, kind of a high pitched whine that wasnt going away so I decide to pull over and check things out.
When I get out of the car I see smoke coming out of the engine bay, now Im concerned. I pop open the hood and up came the flames. The fire wasnt huge at the time but Im scrambling to find a way to put them out. As Im looking the thought crossed my mind, if it goes up in flames I can get a new car, hmmmmm.
Then in came the rememberance I had a half gallon of water with me that I take to work everyday. Crap! I cant very well claim that if I had a way to put out the fire, LOL. Im kidding people, relax.
So I take the water and get the fire put out, not the best thing for an electrical fire, but it was all I had. Hey, I actually tried blowing them out first before I realized what I was doing.
I get the fire put out and see that its the starter power wire that was on fire. Im thinking now why would that happen? I disconnect the starter wire from the battery terminal and call for help. I get the car home and cut the flamed wire out and realize at that point it had gotten up against the EGR tubing. So apparently the heat from that caused the insualation to melt. Well the wonderful engineers at ford decided to run a ground wire to the starter in the same wire loom as the power wire and it appears that the two shorted out. It appears that when I pulled out the slack on the power wire to the starter it pulled it up against the egr tube and that was all she wrote, so its not all Ford's fault, but I could have thought of hundreds of other ways to route the main power lead to the starter.
Well in the end, I lost the wiring to the starter, the starter itself and that ground wire, wherever it goes. It comes from the starter then goes to a connector and changes to gray wiring and into the electrical harness. I have no idea what it is for as of now. My prayer now is that I didnt take out the alternator too. The brainiacs at Ford decided to run one continuous wire fromthe alternator to the starter to the battery with a ring terminal mid way to hook up to the starter.
The starter was easy enough to get off, though I did have to pull out the intake, battery and battery tray. But for the most part it wasnt all that difficult of a job, though the parts store wont have a starter in stock until tomorrow.
So Ive yanked out the alternator and starter wiring and will run individual wires from the alternator and the starter 8awg and 4awg respectively, though I guess I could go ahead and run 4awg for both. The optima battery has both side and top terminals so I got enough points to hook everything up, plus I have aftermarket battery terminals with multiple hook ups.
My concern though is the EGR tubing. I can route the wires away from that, but I would still like to put some type of heat shield around that stuff. There is some fiberglass wrap around small sections but its old and needs to be replaced. I bought some muffler/exhaust repair tape, can I use this on that? I also got some fiberglass socks that the racers use on their spark plug wires to protect them, but I want something on that EGR tubing where it splits into the two tubes and goes to the DPFE sensor and to the EGR valve itself, anyone have any ideas. For right now I just plan on wrapping the muffler/exhaust tape around those areas and routing the wires away from the EGR tubing and then adding that fiberglass sock to the wiring, but I want to be certain as much as possible that the EGR tubing isnt as much of a hot spot as it was, so if anyone has any insigt to something readily available that I can use.
I wanted to use some of that material that is used on the power steering lines or coolant lines (whatever it is) that runs by the header. Ford has on there a slip on tubing that is like a wire loom and metal but isnt split. I couldnt find any of it locally though.
Anway, tomorrow I'll have a new starter and upgraded wiring as much as I can get done. I believe 4awg wiring should be sufficient though I have some 8awg if I need to go that small. In fact I may use 8awg on the alternator cause Ford has a small piece of 8awg on there from the main lead to the alternator and I assume they are using that as a fuseable link. If anyone has any ideas where I wont have to order anything and can get it done tomorrow I would love to hear from ya.
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My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
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SyntheticShield
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Year/Model: | 2001 Pont. Grand Prix GTP ... | | Occupation: | Telecommunications | | Interests: | Storm chasing/Photography | | Male/Female: | Male |
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Posted: Tue Jun 28th, 2005 02:59 pm |
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I think I will go get a couple more of those fiberglass socks just for good measure. I think you are probably correct in that the muffler tape and sock would pretty much do the job. We shall find out.
James, I wouldnt worry too much about the SVT. Im pretty certain Im going to be doing something different with my next vehicle. My business has grown and Im in need of more room and I want more power than I have now. Ive had to let go of the SVT for now to accomodate the business growth. Right now I dont think the Focus is going to handle the amount of cargo I have to carry around at times, but I appreciate you looking out for me in that.
smoknzx3, you had to laugh, think about just how dumb I felt doing that, LOL. With all the traffic driving by too on the highway, I can only imagine what they were thinking. Fortunately the stoopid soup I ate only had a momentary effect before I realized the futility of my efforts. I just thank God that no more damage was done that what was, though my thought is that it could have been a blessing too  .
At any rate, I should have the starter in the next couple of hours and will get busy putting everything back together. Ive got to figure out where that gray wire goes so I can determine whether I can replace it entirely or if I will need to splice into it. Id personally rather replace it as I dont have any love for splices though they are often necessary.
____________________
My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
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SyntheticShield
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Year/Model: | 2001 Pont. Grand Prix GTP ... | | Occupation: | Telecommunications | | Interests: | Storm chasing/Photography | | Male/Female: | Male |
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Posted: Tue Jun 28th, 2005 03:04 pm |
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fx3 wrote: Sorry to hear this but glad its not a total loss.
I got an ultima to match the size and post of the stock battery. I think the wires might be pulled a little but not much. I just can't put the battery cover over it.
If your rewiring the alt and starter why not just run it allong the firewall and down the drivers fender and avoid the motor all together??
I saw your post after I had made my last post. But that is the plan for now, is to route it along that path, I have plenty of wire (that competition audio stuff) in 8awg and 4awg. I even have some 1/0awg but dont have any connectors for it or else I would be using that on the starter, but thats likely a bit of overkill anyway.
But for now that is the plan, just run it along the firewall. I got very blessed that as close as the fire was to my oil by-pass lines they suffered no damage as best I can tell. I hate to imagine what would have happened if one of them had been compromised, THAT could have been a real mess and an end to the Focus for sure, 6.5qts of oil could burn for quite a long time.
____________________
My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
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SyntheticShield
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Year/Model: | 2001 Pont. Grand Prix GTP ... | | Occupation: | Telecommunications | | Interests: | Storm chasing/Photography | | Male/Female: | Male |
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Posted: Wed Jun 29th, 2005 12:46 am |
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Well I got everything fixed. New starter, new wiring and she's purring again. I got beefed up wiring on the grounds and the starter and charging system. I added the muffler/exhaust wrap to the EGR system and will let that heat cycle a couple times so that its set good and the sealant is good and stuck and then I'll add the fiberglass sock to the parts I can.
The wiring is routed from the starter back towards the alternator where I pick up the alternator charging lead and then its routed along a wiring harness that runs along the firewall back over to the fuse box and what have ya. I had to fabricate a piece of rubber using some PCV tubing to wrap around the starter solenoid because it is awful close to some metal motor looking doohickie on the intake manifold. Id bet there wasnt a 1/16th of an inch clearance and I was afraid engine movement would shove that thing right into the power wire terminal for the starter, but its safe and sound now. If I had know I would run into that I would have just went and bough a piece of rubber tubing to slip over the solenoid like a sleeve or sock with cutouts for the wires, but as it is it shoudl be okay. So if any of you upgrade your wiring or burn it up like me  , keep that in mind, you'll need something to make sure it doesnt come in contact with watever that is on the intake, I guess it could be the IAC, but it seemed too large to be that.
I remember there being a recall on the 2000 model focus for wiring that was shorting out, I wonder if it was because they were coming in contact with the EGR tubing 'cause that wiring, even stock, was awful close to that thing, ground wire to the tranny and the power wire to the starter went right by it.
Oh well, such is life. I figured the starter would be a real bear to get off but it actually wasnt that bad, though you will need to jack the car up obviously and remove your battery, battery box and intake to get to two of the three bolts that hold it in, 13mm if anyone wants to know and they are long winded ones. There are three connections on the starter, only two of which you have to remove to get that connecor thingy off that ford uses. One 13mm I believe it was and one 10mm. Be ready for a fight on the alternator lead. The alternator connection has an extension on it that pushes the actual wire connection away from the alternator but its on there so tight you run the risk of breaking it off if you arent careful. I had to use a pair of grip pliers in one hand and a socket wrench in the other to get it off all while reaching up through the limited space there was.
I would HIGHLY recommend that if your replace the starter/alternator wiring that you give enough slack in the leads going to the starter so that you could un-bolt the starter and pull it down without the wires getting overly tight. I left enough I could let the starter rest on the ground, made connecting the leads up a lot easier.
I wasnt looking forward to all this work, but it turned out that it wasnt all that bad, and I learned some stuff too. I do have a hiss sound under the hood that wasnt there before, Im not sure if its a vacuum line or not. I checked all that when I had all the stuff out and didnt see anything damaged or unconnected and I replaced everything that was damaged by the fire. If it is a vacuum leak, it sure isnt affecting anything that I noticed.
At any rate, my baby is back on the road and running as good as ever. Im getting ready to turn 110k miles on it. The only trouble Ive ever had was with the fuel pump and ford took care of that, both times. Now the starter, but that was kind of my fault, though ford didnt help any.
____________________
My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
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ProjectFocusFast
TF Senior Moderator
| Joined: | Tue Jun 1st, 2004 |
| Location: | Milwaukee, WI, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 1311 |
| Year/Model: | 2006 ZX3, 1980 RX7 ... | | Occupation: | Powered Industrial Truck Operator | | Interests: | Focii, gaming, cars in general! | | Male/Female: | Male |
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Posted: Wed Jun 29th, 2005 04:43 am |
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I'd try and locate that hiss. You never know what it may be. It's probably nothing important, but even a small vacuum leak can make your car run lean and shorten your engine's life. It could be something you've never noticed before (but has always been there), too, like an intake hiss or something.
I'm glad to hear your business is doing so well, even if it means no SVT.
I'm glad you got it all squared away now and she's back on the road. Can't wait to get mine out there. Before I do, she's getting an all Amsoil treatment- gear lube, oil, P/S fluid, engine flush. Does Amsoil make anti-freeze? Brake fluid? Hmm... a completely Amsoil'd vehicle. My car could be Soil'd... Amsoil'd! LOL I'm tired.
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SyntheticShield
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Year/Model: | 2001 Pont. Grand Prix GTP ... | | Occupation: | Telecommunications | | Interests: | Storm chasing/Photography | | Male/Female: | Male |
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Posted: Wed Jun 29th, 2005 05:16 am |
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James, I went and drove the car around some more and didnt hear the hiss anymore, so Im not sure what it was. When I heard it I was grabbing all the vacuum lines I could get to with the motor running to see if I could notice a change in the sound and hence the line that needed to be replaced but never found anything and its not doing it anymore, but I'll keep an ear out for it.
I have noticed something though. The freaking thing is got a whole new attitude now. My fiance even noticed it. She said it sounded differently and felt like it was shifting stronger, which I noticed too and seems to be considerably more peppy. When it shifts from first to second its like its trying to yank the motor out of the bay. Not in a bad way as in harsh or hard, just better.
I initially chalked it up to resetting the ECU, but its never been like this after an ECU reset, so we'll see if it continues. I dont know if the electrical system is more stable with the bigger wires and thus doing better or what. I'll have to hook up the scan tool and look at some of the electrical stuff with that to see for sure. If it turns out that the wiring helped I'll get a big capacitor and slap on there and see what else happens  .
In response to your Amsoil inquiries, yes Amsoil does make a coolant that is good for 7 years or 250,000 miles, which I have in my focus. In the Focus you can use ATF for your power steering fluid and I flushed mine a couple months ago and put in Amsoil ATF. Amsoil doesnt make a brake fluid and the only synthetic on the market I know of is made by Vavoline though you may want to take a look at that more in depth as I have been informed by more than one person that synthetic brake fluid has an issue with moisture. Not sure on the details but Im sure you can google it and find something about it. I dont know if its something to consider or if its just people with bad experiences. Amsoil also just came out with a 5W30 gear lube that is absolutely perfect for the MTX, so say the word and we'll get you hooked up.
I despirately would like to have an SVT, but I just dont think its going to remain practical for much longer. I could always yank out the rear seats and make that whole back area flat, but unfortunately the focus serves as a people mover too. We'll see. Ive been eyeing the Chevy Colorado or a Ford Explorer Sport Trac. But Im not sure I want to stay with Ford or not and have had the urge to return to my roots at GM. Ive only owned two cars that werent GM, one I took over to help out a friend (the Neon) which I liked but it too was on the small side and then the Focus. And of the GM vehicles Ive owned almost all of them were Pontiacs, but I dont think a Grand Prix GTP or GTO is going to do much to solve my business needs though I wish one would.
At any rate, let me know when you are ready for some Amsoil. Not knowing the maintenance history on that vehicle I would be heavily inclined to use the Amsoil Engine Flush on it and run some P.I. through the fuel system. Ive had several customers come back to me now and say they have picked up mileage from using the P.I. and at 1oz/10gal its not a bad value as the concentrate treats up to 160 gallons which would be about 12 tanks and at about $8/bottle that works out to about $0.70/tank which isnt too bad. But any mileage increases aside, Id use it just to give everything a good cleaning and infact running some Power Foam through the intake might not be a bad idea either. Anway, let me know.
____________________
My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
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ProjectFocusFast
TF Senior Moderator
| Joined: | Tue Jun 1st, 2004 |
| Location: | Milwaukee, WI, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 1311 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 29th, 2005 05:33 pm |
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Power foam? What's that?
I got two words for you: Pontiac Montana van. These things are sweet. My friend had one (til he wrecked it) and it was really quick, especially for a van. What a blast to drive. Plus, if you needed more oomph, you could strap on the s/c from a Pontiac Bonneville SSE. Bolt on. Plug n play. Anyway...
Your increased pep may very well be from a better charging system with larger wires. Let us know if your increased performance continues- you may have stumbled onto something worthwhile here! Or maybe your car is pissed and just taking it out on the road.
I definately do want to flush out the engine and all the systems before making the Focus my daily driver. It's gonna take a while longer now, since we're moving to Wisconsin, before she'll be on the road- but I still have plenty of work to do before I can stick any more real money into it anyway.
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SyntheticShield
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Year/Model: | 2001 Pont. Grand Prix GTP ... | | Occupation: | Telecommunications | | Interests: | Storm chasing/Photography | | Male/Female: | Male |
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Posted: Wed Jun 29th, 2005 07:39 pm |
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Oh, I forgot. I have heard, but more or less blew it off that there have been before and after dyno results in which the only change was increased size power and ground wires and there were small hp increases. I have seen test results on the electrical system that showed the electrical signals being cleaner and more stable. The hp increase I would blow off personally, but coming from an electronics/electrical background I know the noise and general inference that wires can pick up and what they can do to electronincs performance.
I know the larger wires would allow more current to flow witout damage, but if a particular device needs lots of current then its going to try and pull it regardless of the wire connected to it and if it happens its not big enough then it will just burn up the wire. Now, the new wires have SIGNIFICANTLY more strands than what the OEM wiring has. The starter wire (OEM) appears to be a 6awg wire with maybe 100 strands where as I replaced it with a 4awg wire that has over 2500 strands. Now DC tends to operate on the 'skin effect' where the current travels along the outer side of the conductor rather than the middle like you would think and the added strands in the new wire may allow that to flow more smoothly. The charging wire was maybe a 10awg wire with maybe 70 strands and I replaced it with an 8awg wire that had around 1800 strands.
So it may be the wiring has helped out, and if that is the case I will be looking for a capacitor to install and see if I can stabilize the current levels. I know in electronics we used capacitors all the time to filter and stabilize DC, and it was often an absolute necessity so I can only imagine it would help in an automotive application.
I noticed last night when I was checking the charging circuit that at idle there was a lot of DC bounce whereas when I increased the rpms it stabilized considerably almost no bounce at all. A capacitor would take care of that bounce at idle and would be nothing but good for the electronics and would give a bit of reserve power. I doubt enough to start the car if needed, but it would be enough to keep things extremely stable.
____________________
My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
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SyntheticShield
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Year/Model: | 2001 Pont. Grand Prix GTP ... | | Occupation: | Telecommunications | | Interests: | Storm chasing/Photography | | Male/Female: | Male |
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Posted: Thu Jun 30th, 2005 02:39 pm |
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Well Im here to tell you folks, God as my witness, my car has a COMPLETELY whole new attitude. It shift worlds better, it accelerates better and the idle seems more stable.
For instance, when it got really hot, as it has here lately (100 degrees +) I would have a power drop off and slight stumble between 3000 and about 4200 RPM which I attributed to heat soak. It has always done this no matter what ignition configuration I was running. That is completely gone now and it pulls wonderfully well through 5000 RPM even in the heat of the day. Trust me, I made several runs yesterday.
In addition, the idle would be kinda sputtery when the motor is warmed up, again, no matter what ignition configuration I ran. That now is nearly completely smooth and flat.
As well, my shifts. MY LORD the shifting. Its like I have a new tranny in the car. I swear it shifts so firm and well now that I get the impression if I could squeeze just a bit more power out of it I could get a second gear bark in an automatic. Its REALLY REALLY nice. My 2nd - 3rd shift is still just a tad soft, has always been but was much worse before the shift controller. The shift controller helped considerably and now its even better. The 3rd - 4th shift is a pure delight, very quick and firm. Its even better when I manually shift as I can lessen the effect of the 2nd - 3rd shift a bit more.
The whole characteristic of the car is stronger and more consistent and I am just amazed. The only theory I have at the moment is that it is a result of separating out the charging and starter wire. I may have to take some pictures to explain this well enough but I dont have them at the moment.
The charging wire from the alternator went from the alternator to the starter, there it was connected to the main starter power wire and became one wire which went from the starter back to the battery. Now I have completely independent wiring to both points. I can only theorize at this point (because nothing else has really changed other than just the size of the wiring) that the starter may have been getting some feedback current to the starter solenoid since they were essentially one wire. I would think if the starter were engaging at all I would hear it at some point and Ive never heard anything that would indicate a starter engagement when the motor was already running. Now the alternator charging current could have been powering the windings in the solenoid enough to cause some leeching of current but not enough to fully buid the field to cause it to engage. Right now thats all I have in ideas as to the reason for all the improvement. Other than the use of bigger wires, them being routed better and separated out, everything is the same (electrically).
Im not sure what to make of it, but I sure am enjoying it. I sponsor a motorcyle drag racer that runs in the super gas class and he is going to do some test runs this Friday and Im going to get some pictures for the website. He has been trying to talk me into making some passes down the track and Im thinking I may have to do that just to see the hard facts of the matter. I'll let yall know if I make some runs and what the ET's are.
____________________
My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
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SyntheticShield
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 887 |
| Year/Model: | 2001 Pont. Grand Prix GTP ... | | Occupation: | Telecommunications | | Interests: | Storm chasing/Photography | | Male/Female: | Male |
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