Its been awhile. Life has been really hectic with school and work.Less time for play on the puter. Just wanted to check in and see how everyone is doing. I don't drive my Focus anymore, but we still have it. Where I have my almost 3 year old, we bought a Caravan so the man has the Focus to get backand forth to work. It has gotten sooo much worse that it gets about 10 miles to the gallon now. This spring we are just replacing parts and hopefully it will fix the probs, but we still ove it so we don;t wanna give up. No mechanic can seem to tell us what is wrong and the Ford dealer was just gonna do exactly as we are gonna do. But anywho, wanted to say hi and hope to have more time to enjoy the site once again.
~Andrea~
____________________ Lovin' My ZX3!!!! I finally gave it a name
SMKNS2!!!!
I remember talking about that issue on here with you before. So you are still getting horrible mileage? What all have you done to it so far trying to correct the issue?
If you see this soon, go out and pull your dipstick out and look at the oil on it. Is it the normal golden brown, or black if its been in there a while, or is it a translucent or grayish color?
If its a grayish color you getting a lot of fuel dilution in the oil. Though thats not a conclusive way to tell, particularly if you do a lot of highway driving as the fuel will begin to evaporate when the oil is up to temperature. The only way to conclusively tell if there is an internal issue or some type of fueling issue would be to run an oil analysis and see what the report shows. That might be something to look into before you spend a bunch of bucks on new parts.
If its under warranty though, Id have that thing in the dealer and ride them until they got it fixed, thought if yours is a 2001 then I dont suspect that is much of an option.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
There hasn't been much lately we have done because money is really tight at the moment, but I am hopefully going back to work full time so I plan on trying to gwt hsi issue figured out one way or another. Where can I have an analysis done? I will definately look into that.
Last edited on Wed Apr 4th, 2007 05:57 am by tekslilbrat
____________________ Lovin' My ZX3!!!! I finally gave it a name
SMKNS2!!!!
Myself or Chelly can sell you an oil analysis kit. I wasnt proposing that just to give you another expense, but in all honesty, you will have to know what is going on with the motor internals before you can start diagnosing the issue.
The only other thing I could think of would be to take it to Ford and have them hook it up to their diagnostic machine. Its probably going to run you anywhere from $60- 80 if not more, but they should be able to give you an accurate dianosis of the issue. The problem is that the possibility exists that they will come back and say nothing is wrong. However, if they did state that, we could just about rule out most if not all of the sensors.
Now, if you want to get down and dirty, and its going to require a lot of attention to detail there is something that you could do that wouldnt cost anything but time and it would give a good foundation to work from.
I have customers that will say on a rare occassion that they switched to Amsoil and didnt pick up any mileage. It doesnt happen very often at all, but it has happened a time or two.
When I am contacted about this, I go into pure analytical mode. One of the thigs I will do is have them keep a log of each and every trip they make. I have them fill up the tank until it cannot take any more fuel. Most will stick the nozzel in and fill it up until the handle clicks off. I have litterally been able to put two gallons more in some cars after that happens. I'll shake the car so the fuel can fill in any air pockets in the tank, I'll barely click on the handle so fuel just barely flows and I repeat this until no more fuel goe in.
Why do I do this? It gives me a VERY accurate indication of fuel mileage. I can then drive and take the miles driven and divide that by the gallons needed to fuel back up on the next tank using the same process. There is still a small margin of error, but it is greatly reduced from normal fueling proceedures.
So if you want to go through that, do so and keep log of every time you start the car, how long it idled, how far you drove, time of day, date, type of driving (all stop and go city driving or highway driving, etc) and so on. It has to be detailed. Fill up the tank and reset the trip odometer, write down the vehicle mileage (odometer reading), then when you fill back up write down the date, trip odometer mileage, and odometer mileage reading.
I could set up a form for you to use if you wanted to go through all that. What is the point to all this? It will give you a very accurate picture of how your driving is affecting the mileage, and it is useful in diagnosing mileage issues.
For instance, there is city mileage (the mileage you would get if all you did was stop and go, in town, city type driving) then there is highway mileage (the mileage you would get if nearly all if not all your driving was all on the highway, virtually no stops, on cruise control for extneded periods of time, etc).
In the years I have been doing this what I have found is that customers I have that do all city driving experience very little mileage increases but their oil analysis show greatly enhance engine protection in the form of significantly reduced wear numbers. I can also tell a little about your fueling from an oil analysis. The customers I have the drive a great deal on the highway see significant increases in mileage (when switching from a conventional motor oil) and better engine protection though not quite on par with those that do all city driving.
All city drivng is horrible on any oil and is the worst type of driving on mileage. Your mileage is going to be way lower than someone on all highway driving. Furthermore, very short trips (typically those less than 10 miles in length) do not give the oil time to get up to temperature to evaporate off excess fuel and moisture. If not evaporated off, it builds up, attacks the oil. The fuel will thin out the oil EXTREMELY quickly and reduce your engine protection and wear numbers will go through the roof. Condensation and moisture will cause a thickening of the oil and cause varnish and sludge build up that will start to restrict oil flow over time and eventually lead to the increased wear that will in time destroy the motor.
There are SO many things that can affect fuel economy its not even funny. But in order to start the diagnosis process we really need to know how you drive in detail. We need to learn where you fall in the fuel economy spectrum to first determine if there is a mechanical/electronic issue or if your fuel economy is purely a result of driving habits or perhpas a combination of both.
Now, I will help all I can. If you will do the fuel logs I'll look over them and analyze them for any issues. At that point we can decide if an oil analysis would be warranted (Personally, I would do one just to know if there were any internal issues, but thats me) and if an oil analysis is done we can narrow down the causes if it shows any issues. At that point we can then possibly go to the dealer and say here is the driving habits, this fuel mileage isnt normal and the oil analysis shows some internal issu, put it on your diagnosis machine and see if you can either prove it or disprove it.
Is it going to cost money? Sure. Is it going to be as expensive as blindly replacing parts? Most likely not because we will have more information to operate from.
So, sorry for so much reading, but this is an issue I take to heart but is also a finiky one because of the way people view fuel economy differently. Time has a major impact on ones perception of fuel economy. If you fill up and then forget when you last filled up, then when you fill up again you will likely say "WOW, this thing gets good mileage", even though you may have only put 200 miles on a tank. Likewise, someone that drives a lot and make more frequent trips to the pump may think their vehicle is getting crappy mileage even though they are putting 400 miles on their tank.
I have a 17.5 gallon tank on the Grand Prix. I consistently hit 450 or so miles on a tank of gas, combined driving. What is that? It is a combination of city stop and go driving and highway driving. My trip to work is 36.2 miles one way. In that trip there is about 10 miles of city driving and a lot of stop and go. Literally, in one mile stretch, there is 5 stop lights and I often hit two or more of them. On a rare occasion I can get through them all. So 26.2 miles is highway driving, but it is up and down hilly roads, there isnt a whole lot of flat areas. So 24 - 25 mpg in those conditions is very good, particularly for that car. I have seen my mileage drop down to 19mpg in all city driving. On all highway drives, the last trip I did that was litterally all highway between tanks (an out of state trip) I went nearly 570 miles on a tank. See how the driving habit can affect mileage?
I figured out how to accurately calculate my mileage during any given mile I drive using the information the computer gives me and right now the indications I should be able to easily exceed 600 miles on a tank of gas when I take my next trip that is coming up in a couple months. My goal, however lofty it may be, is to shoot for 700. Will I get there? Who knows, but Im certainly going to give it a shot.
So, if you want to try the things I have mentioned, let me know. I'll do what I can, but as I said we need to know exactly the type of driving you do because where you fall in the spectrum determines how any other results we may get are interpreted.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
I will talk to Mike tonight as he is the one who drives it now. He is on mainly backroads to work and a bit of heavily lighted streets and it is about 32 miles each way. I can tell you he is a passive driver, he doesn't gun it or beat on the car at all. He also said he has had problems with the car since he bought it, but he has just kept fixing it. The check engine light is on again and he has to unplug the egr to keep it idling long enough to toe heel. I have a horrible time driving it because of the toe heel issue, I can;t get my foot on the gas and brake at the same time while coming to a stop like he can. I will let him know and will also talk to him about the analysis. Let me know the cost of the kit and I will try to get it within the next week or so. Thanks for all the info and help.
____________________ Lovin' My ZX3!!!! I finally gave it a name
SMKNS2!!!!
Not able to idle is making me think off the top of my head the TPS(Throttle Position Sensor) and maybe see about getting the ECU reflached (need Ford to do that). Thats just what I emideatly thought of.
I have let Mike in on all the suggestions. When some mula comes in finally I can take some action to try and get her running normal again cuz I really miss drivin her.
____________________ Lovin' My ZX3!!!! I finally gave it a name
SMKNS2!!!!
Mr. Versatile wrote: Hi Andie...nice to hear from you again. We've missed you. Hope you get the car fixed soon.
Hey, Mr V. Yea me too. Looks like it is comin off the road for awhile til we can fix it cuz either the rack and pinion is shot or the power steering pump is shot to top off everything else. We are putting the Bronco on the road for now til we can save up some mula. I think it has been pouring here long enough. I need some sunshine. Thanks for all the help on this and hopefully I can get her fixed and back up and running by the end of the summer.
____________________ Lovin' My ZX3!!!! I finally gave it a name
SMKNS2!!!!
. Thanks for all the help on this and hopefully I can get her fixed and back up and running by the end of the summer.