Hey I was just wondering what everybody thinks I'm at for HP. So far I have a bomz CAI, BBK 65mm T/B, AEM alt UDP, MAC shorty header, FC hi-flow cat, and a bosal cat back(well, flex pipe back). I also just ordered the firepower ignition. I know not to expect any HP from this, but I figure it will help smooth out my idle and the such. So who wants to guess? Any and all welcome!
What does everybody think I should do next? I'm thinking FC flex pipe to finish off my exhaust, then cams(some kind of stage 2), cam gears, a chip, then dyno tuning. Whats everybody else think? Also, with the stage 2 cams, I have heard there is no head work required, but somebody told me the other day that they had to have the head ground down so the cam lobes would clear the head. Any info on this people? Thanks in advance everybody!
Last edited on Sat Jun 5th, 2004 11:06 pm by gr33nlemon
____________________ "Men and boys alike love burnouts because they involve machinery, loud noises, and destruction."
Any guess that I could make would be waaaaaay off.
Much depends on what state of tune the drivetrain was in when it came out of assembly. There has been a substantial variance in stock numbers.
You could be up or down as much as 15 hp from what it was originally.
Only way to know for sure is to toss it on a dyno.
I know it's fun to do add-ons and seat of the pants feel can be indicative but nothing beats raw hard numbers as a base line.
good luck and have fun.
____________________
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams...John Barrymore
So do you all think my next mods that I have planned will help out a lot? I'm thinking that they will. Now that I get to thinking about it, whats quite the ripoff maybe only 10 horsepower for all the money I have spent. My next vehice is going to stay stock I think. I'm not mad or anything, just realizing that the amount of $$ I've put into this to get so little out of it. I guess we'll see when I get to the dyno with the new cams and gears, but that probably won't be for a while.
____________________ "Men and boys alike love burnouts because they involve machinery, loud noises, and destruction."
gr33nlemon wrote: So do you all think my next mods that I have planned will help out a lot? I'm thinking that they will. Now that I get to thinking about it, whats quite the ripoff maybe only 10 horsepower for all the money I have spent. My next vehice is going to stay stock I think. I'm not mad or anything, just realizing that the amount of $$ I've put into this to get so little out of it. I guess we'll see when I get to the dyno with the new cams and gears, but that probably won't be for a while.
Power is never cheap. Without the dyno to find out where you are now, spending any money won't make higher performance a sure thing.
Sort of like having a full palette of colours and a brush but painting in the dark. You won't ever know what stage the painting is at until you turn on the lights. You might have a masterpiece or you may have completely missed the canvas.
____________________
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams...John Barrymore
gr33nlemon wrote: I egt what youre saying codg. Thanks for the insight man!
Welcome. Been there, done that. Spent whacking great piles of money with very little in the way of real performance. Now I watch, listen and measure(dyno)
every step of the way.
____________________
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams...John Barrymore
The parts have just freed up hp and tq not really made it. Other things like new cams, raised compression ratio, or some sort of FI make power. I had my Crower stage 2 cams in my car for a while and saw a nice increase in power(untuned). Alot of people I know were able to drop in the newer Crowers with out needing new buckets. Dyno tunning is the key, look at the Sport Compact Car write up on modding there Focus, it give you a good idea of the power to be had with parts and tunning.
Also I have heard people say that they had to do grinding to get cams to work, WTF is this? You can get new buckets(what goes ontop of the retainers) and they come in different thickness.
____________________ Honda's are like assholes, everyone has one.
Also gr33nlemon if you are thinking about buying a set of Crower stage 2's let me know because I have a set in sweet shape that I can hook you up with for cheap.
____________________ Honda's are like assholes, everyone has one.
forget about hp anyways. HP is function of torque over time. When you talk about more hp you mean more peak hp. I can add significant power to a car and come up with little to no peak gains. The idea is that you build torque into a flat line so that the car pulls hard from start to finish. If you really want a good measure, get a stock dyno and then a modified one and see what has changed and where.
look at this dyno from focus sport. Notice the large torque gain from 2.5 to 3K rpm. It has no effect on peak HP but it is a huge driveablility factor. There is a small hp gain but the overall benefit is done no justice by the numbers. Just rest assured tha the net of your gains is not fully represented by your peak numbers.
TX, you just made my day man. You made me feel so much better about this whole thing. I was thinking to myself, boy 10HP sure does feel like a lot, and I was thinking that I gained more than that. Now you have made me realize that I didnt necessarily gain 10HP peak, I've just moved my powerband around so now my car is more of a blast to drive. I also might have gained more than 10HP is some spots, just not at my max HP number. Well hopefully soon enough I will have a set of crower stage 2's in my possesion and I can get the cam gears and dyno tune it all.
Now everybody, I have one more question for you all. In order to save $$ on dyno tuning, can I jsut use a g-tech performance meter in order to dial in my cam gears to where I think is optimal so I won't have to spend as much time and money at the dyno(keep in mind I will still dyno tune, this is just for a baseline so to speak), or is that a shitty way of doing things? Or maybe like what was talked about in another thread and get the thing that plugs ito my OBDII port that can be used as a dyno. At least when I'm done using that I still have something to show where my $$ went to.
____________________ "Men and boys alike love burnouts because they involve machinery, loud noises, and destruction."
gr33nlemon wrote: TX, you just made my day man. You made me feel so much better about this whole thing. I was thinking to myself, boy 10HP sure does feel like a lot, and I was thinking that I gained more than that. Now you have made me realize that I didnt necessarily gain 10HP peak, I've just moved my powerband around so now my car is more of a blast to drive. I also might have gained more than 10HP is some spots, just not at my max HP number. Well hopefully soon enough I will have a set of crower stage 2's in my possesion and I can get the cam gears and dyno tune it all.
Now everybody, I have one more question for you all. In order to save $$ on dyno tuning, can I jsut use a g-tech performance meter in order to dial in my cam gears to where I think is optimal so I won't have to spend as much time and money at the dyno(keep in mind I will still dyno tune, this is just for a baseline so to speak), or is that a shitty way of doing things? Or maybe like what was talked about in another thread and get the thing that plugs ito my OBDII port that can be used as a dyno. At least when I'm done using that I still have something to show where my $$ went to.
Nothing will give you the hard numbers like a dyno. The G-Tech is a good unit but won't give you the skinny the way that the dyno will. Various groups like the SVT clubs and Mustang clubs negotiate rates for "dyno days". Try and hook up with them.
____________________
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams...John Barrymore
Team Focus should try and put together a DYNO day sometime this summer. I think alot of people would like to put there cars on the dyno and see what kind of power they are making with their bolt-ons. Also some people might like a little tunning. If someone knows of a place with a dyno and would be willing to hook us up that would be sweet. Anybody, anybody, Buller, Buller.
____________________ Honda's are like assholes, everyone has one.
Pretty much any catback exhaust on the aftermarket isn't that good. You almost need to get a custom exhaust to see any more than 5-7hp. A good exhaust place could custom-do a mandrel-bent, side-exit catback for you for probably less than $100.
You want a 45º angle, exiting approx 5-6" in front of the rear driver's side tire (fuel tank is on the pass. side, so I wouldn't make the exhaust go over it) On a mild motor I wouldn't go any more than 2.25-2.5". You want to get a small, round, straight-through muffler, like a glasspack, to keep the noise down (minimally- but better than straight pipe- trust me, I know).
You may lose a small amount of low-end torque, but you will see gains in HP, even over your current catback. More flow=more power.
As for your current mods, I think your MAF and TB were a waste of $600. Unless you're boosting, you don't need a larger TB or MAF. Some magazine (Car + Driver? Road + Track? One of those high-end magazines) did a test on a C6 Corvette, and it showed no gains after the computer "re-learned" what was going on. As for the TB, the stock TB is large enough to feed the engine unless you're pushing over 200hp.
The alternator UDP *maybe* gained you 1hp... although it may have actually COST you HP since the alternator is engaged more now to make up for the fact it's turning slower. Through my own research, I've found you can underdrive the water pump by 50% and not see any ill effects. Where is most of your power lost? The water pump (and the A/C when it's on). The alternator takes very little power to turn to begin with.
With the MAFS I agree with you James, unless you are maxing out the flow on the old MAFS a new one won't gain you any power, the computer will relearn the values, and it will be the same, a large MAFS is just for when you are now passing more air than the current sensor can handle. I do disagree with the TB though. But only in some ways. The TB on the zetec is fairly small, I believe it's 52mm, though don't quote me on this. The major difference you'd notice from an upgraded TB is going to be in throttle response and not so much in overall power numbers. Not to mention the smoother flow you will get since the Stock TB is not overall a straight through design, it has an angular cut, that provides at best 75% efficiency for flow. So from the TB you will see better response, but not necessarily higher HP, at least again, not in a non-FI vehicle.
Well I got a smokin deal on the T/B from a guy who fot it for free. I wasn't really looking to gain anything from that, the car is just more fun to drive now, but in some cases, like traffic, it's a PITA. I got the T/b for less than 1/3 of the original cost to give you guys an idea. For the record, I don't have an upgraded MAFS, it's the stock one. I might be getting some cams off of zx3-rex, so that coupled with some cam gears will probably be next. I was only asking about the g-tech to get a baseline so when I go on the dyno I have some idea where to start out as for advancing/retarting the cam gears. Anybody in here tune cam gears yet? I have no clue how to tune them on a DOHC application. I know that on a SOHC you advannce to HP. retadr for TQ, but what about on a DOHC? Advance the intake, retard the exhaust? Opposite that? Advance both? Obviously this depends on my mods too. But what is the effect of advancing one, retarting one and so on? Can somebody clue me on on this? I love this post, I'm making myself feel like a retard lmao! I really do know some things about modifying, honest!!
____________________ "Men and boys alike love burnouts because they involve machinery, loud noises, and destruction."
