ToTalXS wrote: jhimm wrote: RPIJG wrote: actually cornering and handling in the focus you would rather have the back end a little more slippy, the focus understeers quite a bit (as do most FWD vehicles), it's actually favorable to have a slight oversteer when cornering. The wing adding downforce in the rear is just going to make it more difficult to steer, as well as throwing off the center of gravity for the rear of the vehicle. You never need downforce in cornering unless you have a rear wheel drive which is already oversteering. You want to be closer to neutral, but slight oversteer is ok.
ayup.
that's why the SVT model
has an extra... 2 inches of wing,
not some h00g thing hangin' out back there.
hell,
even the Cobras only have a modest wing
and those -are- rear drive.
so arent you saying that the svt has a wing...which equals more rear down force which equals exactly what i was saying?....
no.
what i'm saying is
a -small- amount of downforce
from a -very small, very lightweight- wing
is a good thing
on a vehicle that's designed to corner tightly.
a big huge bolt on
adding -weight- and -drag- and -lots of downforce-
is a cosmetic addition to the car (if you like them),
but on a front-drive vehicle
is most likely not a performance mod
because its going to decrease your top end,
and could actually
make the car very twitchy in the corners.
but enough about all this,
as i don't want to cheese this guy off any more.
____________________ it is smarter to be lucky
than
it is lucky to be smart.
mustfcs wrote: A little rant, can't you ever stay on topic, I mean, it's like everytime you see a wing you all freak the hell out, and I am sick of the bullshit. If I wanted crap about the wing I would ask for it, and all everyone here does is bitch about the wing on my car. If you don't like it, DON"T LOOK !!!!!!!!!!!! All these replys on this topic, and only the first are about the actual topic, get a fucking life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a) you built that car to get attention (you can't argue you didn't), and you can't control what kind of attention you get, and it isn't always going to be positive. its like getting a bright green mohawk and then complaining when people stare and point when you go to the mall.
b) i asked an "on topic" question and you didn't answer it. how much did it cost you to do the tint job? i realize you did it yourself, but it still had to cost -something-, no?
____________________ it is smarter to be lucky
than
it is lucky to be smart.
mustfcs wrote: A little rant, can't you ever stay on topic, I mean, it's like everytime you see a wing you all freak the hell out, and I am sick of the bullshit. If I wanted crap about the wing I would ask for it, and all everyone here does is bitch about the wing on my car. If you don't like it, DON"T LOOK !!!!!!!!!!!! All these replys on this topic, and only the first are about the actual topic, get a fucking life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's ok to rant But I have to disagree, atleast a little. If you post a pic of your car, you have to learn to accept what might be said. You do not have to ask for them, opinions, thoughts, and suggestions are going to be brought forth. It's an open forum. Thats what an open forum is. People have "bitched" about my SVT before after posting pics lol, shit happens. It's you car, and if YOU like it, thats all that matters. BUt dont fly off the handle when people comment about it, after you freely posted a pic of it. Thats like going out with the hottest girl in the world, but posting a pic of her with a fat lip.
But, I have to agree about trying to stay on topic. I realize sometimes things can get a bit ofcourse, but atleast try to keep it somewhat on point. As long as there is no personal attacks and all out war, I see no need to step in.
I didn't pay anything for it, where as I am a subcontractor for a tint company, they gave me the film for the Focus for free to use it as a demo vehicle....
Sorry about not answering you sooner.....
____________________ 2001 Focus Street Edition, tons of mods but I will never be done....
jhimm wrote: ToTalXS wrote: jhimm wrote: RPIJG wrote: actually cornering and handling in the focus you would rather have the back end a little more slippy, the focus understeers quite a bit (as do most FWD vehicles), it's actually favorable to have a slight oversteer when cornering. The wing adding downforce in the rear is just going to make it more difficult to steer, as well as throwing off the center of gravity for the rear of the vehicle. You never need downforce in cornering unless you have a rear wheel drive which is already oversteering. You want to be closer to neutral, but slight oversteer is ok.
ayup.
that's why the SVT model
has an extra... 2 inches of wing,
not some h00g thing hangin' out back there.
hell,
even the Cobras only have a modest wing
and those -are- rear drive.
so arent you saying that the svt has a wing...which equals more rear down force which equals exactly what i was saying?....
no.
what i'm saying is
a -small- amount of downforce
from a -very small, very lightweight- wing
is a good thing
on a vehicle that's designed to corner tightly.
.
so to summarise.....more downforce than stock is better...thats exactly what i said...sorry you cant see my point here....the reason i say more than stock is because even you said the svt has a bigger wing/spoiler than the zx3 soooo even the highly educated degree wearing engineers at ford agree that more downforce on their fwd car is better....sheeesh
ToTalXS wrote: so to summarise.....more downforce than stock is better...thats exactly what i said...sorry you cant see my point here....the reason i say more than stock is because even you said the svt has a bigger wing/spoiler than the zx3 soooo even the highly educated degree wearing engineers at ford agree that more downforce on their fwd car is better....sheeesh
-yes- the ford svt engineers
who are very smart,
feel that -a tiny bit more- downforce
(more -compared to- the 2 inches on the zx3,
not just more in general)
is good.
like, 2 inches more (4 inches total),
at a very shallow angle.
that's -nothing-
compared to a large aluminum bolt on.
if the very smart engineers at ford svt
thought that huge amounts of downforce
would have made the focus svt a better car,
you can be assured they'd have put it on there.
the very fact that they didn't
is the basis for my entire position.
since your original comment
was in -counter point- to someone
saying they felt the large wing was bad
they came off as a defense of the large wing.
-if- you are defending that large of a wing,
then you and i disagree
whether you like it or not
and i will use the decisions of the svt engineers
as my sole defense for my position
(since you've already ceeded to their authority).
if you are not defending that large of a wing,
then your comments have created that impression,
which is why i continue to put myself
in counter-point to your comments.
____________________ it is smarter to be lucky
than
it is lucky to be smart.
mustfcs wrote: I didn't pay anything for it, where as I am a subcontractor for a tint company, they gave me the film for the Focus for free to use it as a demo vehicle.
then i will completely re-phrase the question.
how much would it cost -me- to do a 50% tint all around
(assuming i was doing the tint myself)?
____________________ it is smarter to be lucky
than
it is lucky to be smart.
The cost for material is about 60 cents per square foot, so you are looking at $15-20 to do the whole car at cost, places that install tint make alot of money, but there is alot of labor in doing the job right.
____________________ 2001 Focus Street Edition, tons of mods but I will never be done....
mustfcs wrote: A little rant, can't you ever stay on topic, I mean, it's like everytime you see a wing you all freak the hell out, and I am sick of the bullshit. If I wanted crap about the wing I would ask for it, and all everyone here does is bitch about the wing on my car. If you don't like it, DON"T LOOK !!!!!!!!!!!! All these replys on this topic, and only the first are about the actual topic, get a fucking life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just have to speak up here because well...I kinda feel obligated. I'm not going to get personal, because I have to maintain some sort of Moderator status, though if there was ever once in my life I could drop it for the sake of giving you the blasting you so dearly deserve, I would. You posted the picture, people are free to comment, you must have surely known when you installed the enormous wing that there would be people who questioned your choice, and those that criticized it. There are then those who make statements such as "It provides valuable downforce" to which others reply "to the rear of a FWD vehicle". Simply put here, we are arguing about seperate things. You like how it "LOOKS", and we are arguing that it provides no "PERFORMANCE". That is the difference. As far as don't like it don't look, that's like playing kickball and when you get out you take your ball home with you. You posted the pic, not everyone is going to like it. As for your last statement, do NOT come in here and verbally assault members of my forum telling them to get a life. To state your gripes about comments made is one thing, but to verbally assault members at large is a big no no in my book.
Ok, you guys can debate, as long as the original poster of the thread is involved. Just dont get personal thats all. Sometimes arguing/debating is fun, but dont take it too seriously lol, its just a car.
BTW, Joe, I thought you were supposed to be Mod. of this Forum? It lists Rokie for some reason. I coulda sworn you were, if I'm right I will switch it for you.
But I have to disagree, atleast a little. If you post a pic of your car, you have to learn to accept what might be said. You do not have to ask for them, opinions, thoughts, and suggestions are going to be brought forth. It's an open forum. Thats what an open forum is. People have "bitched" about my SVT before after posting pics lol, shit happens. It's you car, and if YOU like it, thats all that matters. BUt dont fly off the handle when people comment about it, after you freely posted a pic of it. Thats like going out with the hottest girl in the world, but posting a pic of her with a fat lip. 
