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RPIJG
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| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Pownal, Land Of The Cows, Maine USA |
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Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 07:32 pm |
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It became brazenly obvious to me in this election that our country still very much divides itself between north and south, and it also showed me an interesting side note. The entire northeast, and most all of the west coast, are homes to our most respected educational institutions, and are the centers of the worldwide scientific and intellectual communities. These locations voted very strongly for Kerry. Does this speak to anyone? The most educated citizens of the united states chose Kerry. I'm not saying that there aren't extremely educated people in other areas, but in terms of concentration, these things speak for themselves. I certainly hope that we survive another four years. As it is the US is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, and such an act of economic instability will have profound ramifications not just for the US but for the world. I guess I just don't see what people see in Bush. I find him deceitful, and generally incompetent. I don't think he has the best interests of the US people in his mind, so much as the best interests of his special interests. I see someone who tries to make sunshine out of muddy water. He says "the economy is on the rebound" when in reality jobless claims just rose, growth is well below normal, and the tech sector, and science sectors are on what can only be described as the worst downturn of this countries history. We still have less jobs than ever before, and yet those with the money are getting more of it, while those without are left to deal with scraps. Did anyone else not see the Bin Laden tape release last week. Bin Laden is happy that Bush is president, he said all al qaeda needs to do is send two people with an al qaeda sign to the corners of the world, and this administration will send 20,000 troops to eradicate them. And he's right. Don't be surprised when the draft has to come back. The armed forces are already tight, and for alot of the people coming back from Iraq, talk with them. Maybe it's just those I've spoken with, but they have a less than glowing review of our re-elected president. Let's take a look at two things that tell us the end of the world is near...
1) The Red Sox won the world series
and
2) Bush won the Presidency despite putting the US in harm's way.
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2002 Focus SE
grantj2@alum.rpi.edu
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RPIJG
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| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Pownal, Land Of The Cows, Maine USA |
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Posted: Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 09:46 pm |
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Our service members signed up to protect their country, not to engage in war when their is no justification.
There are a great deal of people who have come back from the war, and are people who would die for the US if the US needed it's protection, but we aren't fighting for the US anymore. Listen to what Bush is saying when he speaks, we are doing this for the Iraqi people. Why was it our problem? There is only one reason you can come to...Oil. It hurt the deep pockets of mighty Oil. There are no other connections. There are no WMD, there are no al qaeda links. The only link was OIL. It's a well known fact that George W. Bush and the Saudi royal family are close friends and business allies. Explain to me why Bush chartered a private jet for Bin Laden's relatives living in the US, and had them sent to Saudi Arabia immediately after 09/11. Explain to me, justifying a war in one country by blaming it on a group that is in another country. Explain to me praising your economic policy while the national deficit is near half a trillion a year, and the national debt is now over $7 trillion. Explain to me how you take an economy that was balanced and paying off the debt and manage to plunge it to this point BEFORE 09/11. Do your research people. 09/11 didn't start the problems our economy is having, those problem's started soon after Bush took office and before 09/11. Explain to me how excluding the rights of certain people has ever been right in our nation's history. Explain to me how we can abandon those who have little in order to give more to those who have it all. Explain to me how we can let people go without any health insurance at all. Explain to me how we can can social security, a program which benefits those who have worked hard, but didn't make the standard executive issue million dollars in their lifetime. Explain to me how our country can divides itself North/South when it's been over 100 years since the civil war. Explain to me how having assault rifles to go hunting with is a good thing. Explain to me how giving tax breaks to large corporations for being multi-national is a good thing. Explain to me how telling a woman that she doesn't have the right to do with her body as she chooses is right. And explain to me how you can judge that person based on your religious ideals, and have that become a federal law, when your religious ideals should have no bearing on that person's life whatsoever. Explain to me how you can stifle the science community to such a degree as to prevent the innovation, and discovery that makes america one of the most technologically advanced societies today. Explain to me how you are going to drive economic growth without that innovation. Do you understand the economic principals that say without innovation and scientific discovery that all economies are prone to fail? Is their an economist out there who can actually talk without bias? This country is divided, and no matter what this election seems to say, there is no unity. And it's all downhill from here.
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2002 Focus SE
grantj2@alum.rpi.edu
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Chelly03PZEV
TF Administrator
| Joined: | Wed May 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | Always On The Ocean, Maine USA |
| Posts: | 3590 |
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Posted: Thu Nov 4th, 2004 01:20 am |
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Mr. Versatile wrote: I'm saddened and depressed. I don't know what to do 1st; puke or move to Canada. 
Amen Mr. V - At least there I wouldn't have to worry about where my next bottle of medication comes from. Here I do.
I feel you Joe - 100% I've had nothing improve in my life since Bush came into office.
Our biggest problem here is the people who DIDN'T vote! The average age range of 18-34 - do you realize how many of us that is that DID NOT get out there and VOTE?!!! Why are we allowing that? I voted and I could hardly walk!
I have a co-worker that says that she doesn't care if those of us who vote think she has no right to bitch about the situation we're in (she doesn't and didn't vote). Well, to be honest, I do have an issue with it - if you didn't even attempt to get to the polls to cast your vote, you don't have any room to complain about what a shit hole this country becomes.
To be perfectly honest - "Dubya" embarasses me! How can that be??!!! How can the "greatest man in the world" embarass the citizens of the country he leads? JUST LOOK AT HIM! He commands NOTHING! He's a weasly looking & acting putz!
If I could, I would have gone into the military...I've talked about this before, but I couldn't say I would be out there fighting for him. I'd be fighting for all of you - the citizens who believe that we have the right to speak and be who we are.
don't legislate your morals on me. Keep your religous mandates out of my courtroom...If it's not hurting you personally, then leave me alone!
UGH - this will lead nowhere, I know it. Bush is there, that's it...for the next 4 years. So help me if another Republican like him gets in there in 2008 I'll join you in Canada Mr. V! ***Just a note, I am non-partisan - my registration states undecided.
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SyntheticShield
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| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA |
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Posted: Thu Nov 4th, 2004 01:48 am |
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First, Joe, you're startling me. You have enlightened me to a brand new test. I can gauge how smart or educated I am by which canidate I vote for. I have truly never heard that before. I find that funny as both went to Yale and Pres. Bush went to Harvard also both schools right smack in the middle of this educational epicenter you speak of.
As for your second post, it would take a great deal of room to respond to each and every question you posed. However, I will respond to your statement that your religous ideals should have no bearing on another persons life. Let me tell you that no matter WHO you vote for, elect, want, etc. NO MATTER WHO, you are voting for what they believe in. Sen. Kerry is a Catholic according to his record. You think how he was brought up, how he was taught, what he was taught to believe in is going to have no bearing on his day to day decisions on a personal or political level? EVERYONE is driven by what they believe in, what they percieve to be right or wrong. What they think is fair and unjust. And all those gauges are determined by what and how they believe. Whether you be a Christian, an Atheist, a Catholic, Islamic, Gnostic or whatever, your day to day life is going to be driven by what you believe.
Anyway, enough of that.
Manninej, you arent the lone Republican. But that has no bearing on what Im about to say because it would apply whether I were a Democrat or Republican. As a vetran of the armed forces I completely agree with your statement. I spent 5 years in the military, all of it overseas. When I signed up I took and oath which stated I would defend the constitution from ALL enemies foriegn or domestic. Also in that oath was a declaration that I would obey all orders from the commander in chief (its been a while so I dont recall it word for word as I once did). It didnt say I would obey those orders only if I agreed with them or could sit out the fight if I didnt. In KNEW what I was signing up for and what I was getting into.
I also was required to carry around a card and memorize statements on it. They basically re-enforced your oath that you took when you entered the military. The very FIRST statement was I was an American fighting man (I believe it now reads person so as to be more politically correct). It didnt say I was a military or government employee. It stated CLEARLY I was an American FIGHTING man. My job was to be sufficiently trained and prepared to FIGHT at a moments notice. Most of my career in the military I spent on quick strike teams in my particular field in which I had to be ready at all times to be ready to deploy in 30 minutes.
Another statement on that card, again, re-enforcing the oath, said that I am prepared to give my life for my country. It was on there folks, and if you signed up and didnt know that it was possible that your life could be required of you, then you simply were not all there. Perhaps not from one of the major educational epicenters.
So manninej, you are correct. I KNEW what I signed up for, I KNEW the risks. And I would right at this moment sign up again and head to Iraq if I could. My job was not to make a self determination whether or not a particular fight was just or not, mine was to FIGHT!
Im not attacking anyone, I just had to get some things off my chest after reading this post. We as people draw conclusions way too quickly. We know but part of the story and have but a piece of the overall information. Let me say this. In the time leading up to the invasion of Iraq there was a lot of information put out to the public. What you didnt get is the information that was spoke of behind closed doors. And let me tell you, the information that Pres. Bush was given by intelligence about WMD and the Al Qaeda congress also got. Congress has access to the SAME information and if they felt that there was no connection and no WMD's then why didnt they stand up and say this information isnt right. Everyone wants to blame Pres. Bush, but no one wants to say anything to or about anyone else that had access to that information and intelligence reports.
When you say do your research, keep in mind your research consists of information that is publicly released or on what other say. If you are LUCKY you understand one side of the arguement. Consider yourself blessed if you can say you know both sides of the arguement well enough to draw a conclusive decision. What we know is just a fraction of the information that was considered when making the decision to go into Iraq. I dont know about you, but I think its a little difficult to draw any conclusions without all the facts.
Again, I dont mean to be on the attack. Just responding to get some things off my chest in response to the post. I could tell you some stories from being in the armed forces. But then I would have to kill ya and well, what good would that do. I would loose a VERY good friend.
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My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
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Chelly03PZEV
TF Administrator
| Joined: | Wed May 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | Always On The Ocean, Maine USA |
| Posts: | 3590 |
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Posted: Thu Nov 4th, 2004 02:26 am |
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manninej wrote: George Carlin said something about bitching and not voting. Went along the lines of you (those that voted for the winner) voted for him, so you shouldn't be able to complain. I on the other hand had no part of putting him there, so I can bitch as I see fit. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but it's something to think about.
To be totally honest, I didn't vote either. Although, my single vote wouldn't have mattered. I would have voted for Bush and since he won Missouri regardless of my vote, it didn't matter.
I obviously didn't vote for him, so yes, I can bitch about him...but why would I vote for someone I don't believe in? yes, my beliefs...I agree with you there Daniel re: beliefs, but when trying to run a business (which our country is a very LARGE business if you come down to bare bones) your personally beliefs need to stay out of it. Rules, which are formed from beliefs, yes, but not all rules are agreed upon by those who have to follow them. Rhetorical, maybe, but isn't everything stated from politics rhetorical?
As for your one vote - this is where those who don't vote because they think their one vote won't count. obviously, you add all of those "one votes" you get hundreds and thousands of votes! You're just very lucky your state voted your way. I feel my vote made a difference.
As for the armed services. I know the way it works there. My paternal grandfather was in WWII, My paternal step grandfather was in the Korean War, My father - The Veitnam "Conflict". I am the eldest of 3, I am the only girl. I wanted to go into the military from when I was a young girl wearing my dad's navy hat and shirts. I got ill and they wouldn't take me. I know that my commitment was to obey the orders of my commander and cheif as well as the potential to die fighting for America.
I don't believe Bush, I don't like him, he leaves me feeling completely helpless in this gigantic world! Why should I feel this way?! Is it right for me to feel this way? Of course it is. Nothing he has done for this country in the past 4 years shows me he cares about nothing but proving some point in the middle east. I cringe and it breaks my heart the more I hear of our men and women dying. Yes, they knew what they were signing up for, but this is just getting silly. I know we're expected to be the police for the world, but first they call us and say help, then they spit in our faces and call us rapist and war mongers. We can't win when it comes to conflicts like this.
Hell, look at what the rest of the world thinks of Bush being re-elected. Leaves a bit for me to have to swallow.
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Get in, Sit down, Shut up and HANG ON!
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RPIJG
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Pownal, Land Of The Cows, Maine USA |
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Posted: Thu Nov 4th, 2004 03:50 pm |
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ok...some things I've realized since the conclusion of the 2004 election...
1) I'll live to see another military draft
2) I'll be in it (and I can't shoot straight)
3) I'll get to see the Middle East, probably Iran
4) I need to draw up a will
5) Reality TV is a distraction from reality...how else would we let ourselves get brought into a war on false pretenses, lose millions of decent jobs, and drop a couple of big Cleveland Steamers on the Bill of Rights without anyone raising an eyebrow?
I didn't say that those who lived in Bush states were any smarter or less smarter, on a person by person basis, but in the states that Bush won, they have on average a lesser education level on average. These are the facts. OVERALL, more people with less education on average voted for Bush. Don't mistake the idea that this country didn't vote because the southerners don't like the northerners. If Kerry was a mid-western democrat he'd be sitting in office right now. I haven't denied the fact that those in the military know their roles. They are filling them aren't they. But does that mean that they have no right to dissent? That would be like me having to like my job because I know what it entails. That's a load of horse shit. These people are there following their orders, despite the fact that they aren't really protecting the US right now. At least not the ones in Iraq. And if there was some of this super secret information that would clear the president from the burden of having lied to the US people, don't you think it would have been made public by now? Instead we have a commision that investigates it, bi-partisan I might add, and they confirmed that there was never any good intelligence to that effect. And Chelly made an excellent point... Am I naive enough to think that people make decisions based on what they believe? No, but do I think that your religion gives you the right to force your moral code down my throat? No. If it isn't hurting another person, then what business do you have telling me what to do? NONE! This administration has repeatedly decieved the US people, but apparently more people are willing to believe bullshit than truth. A man who can't admit when he is wrong, can never change his mistakes.  Bush.
Last edited on Thu Nov 4th, 2004 03:51 pm by RPIJG
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2002 Focus SE
grantj2@alum.rpi.edu
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