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Chelly03PZEV
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| Joined: | Wed May 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | Always On The Ocean, Maine USA |
| Posts: | 3590 |
| Year/Model: | 2003 2.3 PZEV ... | | Occupation: | Broadband Technical Support Rep | | Interests: | Focus & Cars in General - Dogs (animals) - many ... | | Male/Female: | Female |
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Posted: Sat Nov 6th, 2004 04:07 pm |
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Well Said Codger - That is how I feel about my country. I love my country and I like Canada as well (I've been there and it's lovely in places).
I don't mind giving a bit more to help my fellow countrymen in situtions like mine so when they are able to work, they can contribute back to the country as a healthy, giving, prosperous member of the taxpaying community.
As for volunteering...I give all the time. I'm notoriously known for getting small bags together with toothpaste, toothbrushes, combes, tissues and other sundries including a blanket or mittens or hat etc in a bag and handing them out to the homeless in the colder months. I don't have much money at all and that's just something I'm working on, but I give all the time. Why? Because so many have helped me in my time of need.
Codger, thank you for your statement it is extremely refreshing to hear it from someone who has lived a full life.
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Codger
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Wed Jun 2nd, 2004 |
| Location: | Canada |
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Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2004 04:49 pm |
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Captain J wrote:
Well said Codger. An opinion that was communicated without extreme emotion and easily understood by one of a different opinion. As Chelly, said, it was refreshing. If i had capability right now to think that way it would be much easier to live in this overcrowded world. But that would take a lot of money or a job that I had a passion for.
Thanks. All of our individual situations and financial circumstances change throughout our lives. Oddly enough my ability to contribute to the general well being of my countrymen is tracked very precisely by the Canadian Government. When I'm doing well they decide that I ought to donate more money. During those times in my life when I've been in a crunch they've taken less or nothing at all. It's called income tax.
I've always found that it's much easier to gain economically if I take a bunch of other people with me. Together we get more done and have a better time of it. Call it microcosmic socialism if you wish. Ten or twenty people working together with a common goal in this case within a structure called a company. We all bust ass together and all gain.
Captian J. You've just nailed the single most important component of success in any venture. Passion. Sometimes it's passion for the job, or the goal. Sometimes it's just a passion for working with a group of people for mutual benefit.
I just finished a project for some people that I didn't really like. All those involved have busted ass huge for the past 6 months. Analysis for a company looking at outsourcing. Do I like outsourcing? No. The passion came in to play when the questions about outsourcing came down to the survival of the company and figuring out if a) they could continue to exist while manufacturing in the US. b) would the democrats win and take a harder position on outsourcing? c) could sub-assemblies be outsourced and final assembly be done on shore? the opportunity came to go offshore in Q3 this year and we agreed with them that it was the correct move. Watching the election and wondering every minute if we'd made the correct call and recomendation has been tiring but also exhilarating. We couldn't change the outcome of the election although it's probably pretty clear that most outsiders would have preferred a different outcome. Sometimes you just have to work within the confines of a structure that you can't change. I really disliked having to make the final proposal. I'm not Donald Trump, I hate firing people. It was, however, the correct conclusion. No, watching the results come in and seeing that the county in which those soon to be unemployed people voted in favour of their own unemployment didn't make me feel any better.
Sorry about going on so long. You can't always change the big picture. Sometimes all you can do is change a very small area around you. There's nothing wrong with bitching all the time. Nothing is ever perfect. If you see something that can be done better, bitch about it, but then go and try to make it better. Don't take this as a slam. It's not intended that way. I'd rather have someone be alive and awake enough around me to see that something isn't up to par than a sleepy twit that is perfectly content with the status quo. We'll probably disagree about what's wrong, what the solution is and how to do it. If we can agree somewhere along the line that we can make something better than it is then we're at least getting somewhere.
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A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams...John Barrymore
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Jonny Bolt
TF Family Member
| Joined: | Mon May 24th, 2004 |
| Location: | Hampton, New Hampshire USA |
| Posts: | 1515 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2004 06:10 pm |
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I have to agree with Eric on his first statement. Personal responsibility is key here.
However, I find it highly disturbing that nobody really cared about the Iraqi people, and we only decided to "liberate" them when it became "better" for us to invade. Once we decided it would be beneficial for us in the future, we decided to attack. When we needed an excuse for war, it became liberation. Well I dont want to be the great liberator of the world.
Its hilarious that we armed Iraq during the Iran/Iraq conflict. Build em up, knock em down. Its the same policy Israel uses. Build you up, knock you down. We did the same thing in Afghanistan...armed the Mujahadeen so they could defeat the Communist Soviets, then down the road, they become no good for us.
I think its time America seriously woke up. Our foreign policies are making us targets.
I also have to agree with Rick. We sweep our own doorsteps before we go off and sweep others'.
As far as America being "founded on" Christianity, hogwash. Alot of forefathers were ofcourse religious, and there are those who weren't. America was "founded on" the freedom, liberty, and the natural rights of man. And those rights include freedom from religion in Government. I have a very, very hard time with people who make decisions based on religious belief and emotion, rather than reality and thought process. And we have alot of those types in high positions as we speak.
"God" or Jesus Christ is NOT going to float down from the sky and save everyone. Thats just not reality. Personal responsibility is the first step. Dick Cheney would tell you differently though.
Last edited on Sun Nov 7th, 2004 06:15 pm by Jonny Bolt
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Codger
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Wed Jun 2nd, 2004 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 9th, 2004 06:23 pm |
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Jonny Bolt wrote:
1)I have to agree with Eric on his first statement. Personal responsibility is key here.
2)However, I find it highly disturbing that nobody really cared about the Iraqi people, and we only decided to "liberate" them when it became "better" for us to invade. Once we decided it would be beneficial for us in the future, we decided to attack. When we needed an excuse for war, it became liberation. Well I dont want to be the great liberator of the world.
Its hilarious that we armed Iraq during the Iran/Iraq conflict. Build em up, knock em down. Its the same policy Israel uses. Build you up, knock you down. We did the same thing in Afghanistan...armed the Mujahadeen so they could defeat the Communist Soviets, then down the road, they become no good for us.
I think its time America seriously woke up. Our foreign policies are making us targets.
I also have to agree with Rick. We sweep our own doorsteps before we go off and sweep others'.
3) As far as America being "founded on" Christianity, hogwash. Alot of forefathers were ofcourse religious, and there are those who weren't. America was "founded on" the freedom, liberty, and the natural rights of man. And those rights include freedom from religion in Government. I have a very, very hard time with people who make decisions based on religious belief and emotion, rather than reality and thought process. And we have alot of those types in high positions as we speak.
4)"God" or Jesus Christ is NOT going to float down from the sky and save everyone. Thats just not reality. Personal responsibility is the first step. Dick Cheney would tell you differently though.
1) I guess the question that I have to frame goes to the root of "personal responsibility". Does personal responsibility refer to taking responsibility only for one's self? Or does it mean that one is responsible for the general status of the society in which that person lives? Using and directing the government towards actions that benefit all the members of that society. I prefer a responsible, responsive and accountable government. I just don't have the time to make a living AND sort out the problems that I see needing to be fixed.
2) Disturbing: Yes. Hilarious: No.
Today's liberator is yesterday's terrorist. It all comes down to who is writing the history.
I'm not defending the arming and support of the Afghanis during their conflict with the Soviet Union. Hindsight is 20/20 and in retrospect those actions had much to do with the current state of affairs. Were the decisions taken at that time the correct ones given the information that those who made the decisions had? The information is not all public yet so it's difficult to come to a conclusion. However, I think that it's fair to say that the US support of the Afghanis and their supporters did have a direct effect upon the collapse of the Soviet economy.
Just a wild shot here: Bin Laden's recent declaration that his tactics were to force the US to spend a huge multiple in dollar terms relative to every dollar that he spends seems to be a valid strategy. The US dollar is losing it's strength relative to the Euro and the national debt is now bumping up against it's statutory legislated maximum. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3981455.stm
3) I believe that you are correct when you assert that the US was supposed to be a secular state. When the Bush administration made reference to a Crusade, a term with significant religious historical ramifications, the rest of the world started to get very concerned. My own belief is that God can't be held responsible for the actions taken by someone who doesn't use his "god given brain".
4) Not going to argue this. If some people believe this then so be it. As a basis for foreign policy it's questionable in my mind. It might be prudent to have a plan "B" which doesn't rely on the metaphysical.
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A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams...John Barrymore
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RPIJG
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Pownal, Land Of The Cows, Maine USA |
| Posts: | 1749 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 9th, 2004 07:54 pm |
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how about this for starters:
Just a little economic outlook for you.
Our national debt stands near $7.3 trillion dollars and is rising at about $500 billion a year and growing. Divide that up per capita and that comes to $24,190 per person. Add in consumer debt, and the number comes to $31,748 for every person. Add mortgage debt and the number tops $55,000. Why? Bush is the first president in history to cut taxes while waging a war. War's cost money, but the Bush tax cuts cost the US $242 billion dollars (with the majority going to the top 1% of earners in the US, Bush actually got $30K from it). Those lost revenues had to be made up elsewhere and were borrowed. Bush's tax cut gave $242 billion to 2.9 million people while costing $257 billion dollars for the other 290 million. If the Bush cuts become permanent, they will total $3.3 trillion in lost revenue for the US. All of which will have to be made up by borrowing more money. During the last 4 years, discretionary spending rose 24%, the biggest jump since WWII. That doesn't include the cost of occupying Iraq. With the ballooning deficit, the US has to continue to pay off the interest from that debt. As it stands right now we paid $318 billion last year just to pay off the interest on that debt. With interest rates at all-time lows we can manage this if we weren't to keep inflating the deficit, however, with interest rates on the rise (inevitably, as our national deficit increases interest rates will increase to stave off inflation that ravaged the US in the 1980's). However, as the interest rates increase so does the portion of money that has to go towards paying off the interest on that debt. If that interest had been used to pay for programs, or to pay down the deficit, instead of the tax cuts, or the second lowest level of corporate taxes in US history, it could have paid for Veteran's benefits, education, environmental protection, space program, federal courts, law enforcement, and pay the salaries of the departments of Commerce, Interior, Energy, and State plus international aid, with billions left over. Instead, 60% of US corporations paid no taxes at all last year. All while Bush tax cuts, have reduced the US revenues by $64 billion this year, without spending a dime less. So much for the LIBERALS spending your money. Right now the US is paying about 4.6% interest on it's debt, with rates rising, if that number doubles to 9% (not unlikely, we saw numbers 3-4 times that in the 80's) the interest bill would come to $636 billion dollars and the government would not have enough money to cover Social security, Medicare, or Medicaid beneficiaries as well as all non-defense discretionary expenditures, like education, justice, transportation, and numerous other governmental responsibilities. If interest rates do rise to 1980's numbers, the total amount of interest due to pay off our debt, will exceed the total revenue of the US. At which point the US will be bankrupt. Yup, you heard me right, bankrupt. Apparently, nobody cares about the Economy anymore. Does anyone know the cycle that all democracies go through? "From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependance; from dependance back again to bondage." Alexander Tytler. The pilgrims went from bondage to spiritual faith, and the courage to tame the wilderness. Their descendants inherited the courage, to fight for independance and waged a desperate fight for liberty, and lay the groundwork for abundance. That abundance has caused selfishness, today complacency rules the US, when the US's creditors come calling they will be at the mercy of those creditors, and hence back to bondage. I guess not to many people thought about that during the last election did they?
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2002 Focus SE
grantj2@alum.rpi.edu
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RPIJG
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Pownal, Land Of The Cows, Maine USA |
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Posted: Wed Nov 10th, 2004 02:46 pm |
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Codger wrote:
RPIJG wrote:
Thanks Codger, it just amazes me that people don't see the kind of havoc our beloved president played on our struggling economy. I've got a few graphs I'd like to share of collected data, when I get around to them, I'll show them...probably tommorrow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3999825.stm
"US deficit pushes euro over $1.30
The dollar has slumped to a new record low against the euro, breaching the $1.30 level on news of another large trade deficit.............."
This is just the start of something worse, if the dollar slumps interest rates are bound to rise as creditors seek higher interest rates on their treasury bonds because they are less valuable than when they bought them. Higher risk means higher interest rates, higher interest rates means more interest needs to be paid on the national debt, paying more for interest means we need to borrow more, which starts the cycle all over again. Believe me when I say, the US is in serious economic jeopardy right now.
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2002 Focus SE
grantj2@alum.rpi.edu
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RPIJG
TF Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Pownal, Land Of The Cows, Maine USA |
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Posted: Wed Nov 10th, 2004 06:03 pm |
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Codger wrote:
RPIJG wrote:
I now own 3 oz of gold at a whopping cost of...$435 per oz. Yup, seems outrageous, but it's the only truly consistent form of currency that isn't subject to inflation.
I've been converting everything to Euros including current accounts for 6 months. Good return. Small position in gold is probably a safe bet but potential return is questionable unless you think that the US$ is going to go completely in to the toilet.
The good thing about gold is that it's value is more stable, and universally exchanged. As it is with the dollar falling, gold stands to rally. As for the toilet, I can smell the ring on the bowl from here. I'm not holding my breath, to many indicators show trouble on the horizon, and not enough showing solutions to the problems. Bin Laden (that ass munch) said it right, the quickest way to defeat the US is to bankrupt us, and I fear pretty soon we'll go from superpower to super broke, and it could spell disaster for more countries than just the US.
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2002 Focus SE
grantj2@alum.rpi.edu
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