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Chelly03PZEV TF Administrator

| Joined: | Wed May 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | Always On The Ocean, Maine USA |
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| Year/Model: | 2003 2.3 PZEV ... | | Occupation: | Broadband Technical Support Rep | | Interests: | Focus & Cars in General - Dogs (animals) - many ... | | Male/Female: | Female |
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Posted: Mon Jun 13th, 2005 06:49 pm |
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Here is where there are so many misconceptions about Pitts.
The number one thing I've been reading up about on Pitts now that I am the proud owner of one is that they are solitary!
If you own a pitt let it be the only dog you own. They tend to not share very well. They have a very strong prey instinct and can & will kill other smaller animals if given the inclination and opportunity.
Littermates have been known to live for years together and then all of a sudden one will be the more dominant and will let the other one know that he's/she's had enough and attack. That is what happened to Mack. I'm a realist when it comes to this breed. I know they are very powerful, compact little guys & gals, but I also love and respect all dogs.
It's not the breed it is the lack of education and the panic left behind by stories like this. Any dog could have done this. I'm not certain what set these dogs off, but I'm certain the kid had to have done something to trigger a response from the female. It was the female correct?
Anyway. Don't hate the dog, or the breed, just learn to understand them. They're being over bred, in bred and trained to be vicious. We need to make it illegal for these ppl. who breed for fighting and go to jail and pay very heavy fines. Also make it illegal for these ppl. to EVER own any other type of animal EVER!
PS - Anyone notice how the attacks from other breeds just seem to be so much less significant than the APBT? No coinscidence that the media hypes the breed as vicous and menacing, brutal and unsafe.
I'll tell you right now, I had a major issue with a Dalmation I used to know that would just as well take off your arm as to let you pet her.
____________________ Get in, Sit down, Shut up and HANG ON!
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Chelly03PZEV TF Administrator

| Joined: | Wed May 26th, 2004 |
| Location: | Always On The Ocean, Maine USA |
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Posted: Tue Jun 14th, 2005 03:28 am |
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I have to disagree with the statements that an APBT is a poor choice to be around childeren.
Petey, the dog - Little Rascles = APBT
Buster Brown Shoes - Dog = APBT
RCA Dog = APBT
Thugs who think it's cool to starve, beat, fight and over/inbreed your dog = stupid
The APBT is very loyal to it's 'pack'. It will protect it's members including children to the death just as any mother would for her child.
Mack has been brought up around my neice for her past 2 years from infancy to Toddelerhood and always has loved her and been gentle with her. He is the same with coroner19's girlfriend's 2+month old. He comes to her side when she cries and lays by her bed while she sleeps. At Chrissy's feet when she is holding her.
I have very strong opinions on all dogs including pitts that you MUST socialize them and you MUST put them in their subordinate place in the pack. They are fed last, they are loved VERY much and spoiled rotton, but I will not tolerate an animal that is disrespectful and unruly.
Mack is polite, he knows his doggy manners and I can understand what he tells me. He tells me when he's not comfortable in a situation or when he's so happy he could pee himself.
There are many dogs with a stronger prey instinct than others, but I will tell you know, just like the horse power in an engine, if you don't respect the power you have control of and use it the way it is meant to be used then you're the one who has failed in learning.
Dogs who attack are provoked in some way. Not taught or socialized as they must be.
I have been working on Mack with Dan since we took him in after his attack (littermate almost killed him) We've had to teach him that greeting people, including us, or when playing that 'mouthing' our hands is NOT ok. he knows. My brother used to think it was cute. I love my brother don't get me wrong but his point of view and understanding of dogs is limited.
Mack came to my brother after a year of ignoring, yelling and hunger. He was left alone for hours and hours on end. left to feed himself from the garbage and be bored. What happens when a dog is bored? They chew to try and let out their frustration. No social skills and no educated dicipline and you have a 'bad dog'.
My brother took him in when he heard the original owner said they had to get rid of it and that he was 'hopeless' and destructive. My brother crate trained him, taught him how to walk on lead, sit, stay, come, down, no & love. The only other problem there was 2 more dogs to compete against. He'd just had to spend a year alone & now there is competition for food, affection and space.
He lives happily here with us now and I trust him. I know that I can't trust him fully with strangers, but that is because of his year of solitary confinement.
Why do people think these dogs attack? Raise an ignorant child and you'll have an ignorant adult.
Sorry so long winded. I've owned a Beautiful Dobermann Pinscher and now a Pitt - I've been given the 'look' for years now because of the breeds I've owned. why? because the media says so? Well, they've said a lot of things and were WRONG.
____________________ Get in, Sit down, Shut up and HANG ON!
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03 white zx3 Team Focus Premier Member

| Joined: | Sun Jan 23rd, 2005 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 14th, 2005 05:22 am |
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I had some doubts earlier about my pittie, but there is no doubt in my mind now that with responsible ownership (which admitedly meant learning a lot more about her and her breed let alone dogs in general) she is the greatest dog. I love my lab too, but my pittie is so much more gentler and better around children/adults than my lab is. Much more trustworthy.
Besides, who could resist a smile like that makes things like the couch in the background (what she did when she was bored one day BEFORE I learned what I know about dogs) so much easier to handle 
I've dealt with the looks and the comments and basicaly the way I see it is that I just don't give a crap if you like my dog or not. If she's not bothering you, then leave her (and us) alone. I don't want to hear anybody spew their ignorant comments and I simply don't listen anymore. The way it is at our house is that if you don't like our dogs and accept them, don't come over to our house (I came to this conclusion after quite some time of one of Gwen's friends and my best friend not allowing her daughters to come play at our house becaus eof Brutus). That's her loss that she won't know a great loving very loyal dog. Hell, if given the chance our lab would run away from the house if unleashed, but Brutus simply sits at the door and waits (while leashed of course).
BTW, a HUGE thank you to Chelly from Brutus and myself.
I cannot wait to get home to my pups!
Last edited on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 05:23 am by 03 white zx3
____________________ "Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either, just fuck off and leave me alone. "
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03 white zx3 Team Focus Premier Member

| Joined: | Sun Jan 23rd, 2005 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 02:23 am |
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Mom charged in fatal dog mauling
Friday, June 24, 2005; Posted: 9:05 a.m. EDT (13:05 GMT) var clickExpire = "07/24/2005"; 
Maureen Faibish gets into a car in front her father's home Thursday, in San Francisco, California. SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- The mother of a 12-year-old boy fatally mauled by the family's pit bulls was charged Thursday with child endangerment.
Nicholas Faibish was killed June 3 by one or both of the family dogs when his mother went out to run errands.
Maureen Faibish, 39, found her son in a bedroom, covered in blood from several wounds, including a major head injury.
One of the dogs was shot and killed by a police officer shortly after the attack. The other remains in animal control custody.
"His parent made the decision to leave (Nicholas) alone in a situation that endangered his life and ultimately led to his death," prosecutor Kamala Harris said in a statement.
Maureen Faibish told the San Francisco Chronicle she had been so concerned about one of the dogs that she shut her son in the basement to protect him. She said the male dog was acting possessively because the female was in heat.
An arraignment will be scheduled for next week. Faibish faces a maximum ten years in prison if convicted.
On a side note:
Chely, Mack is a very handsome boy!!
Last edited on Sat Jun 25th, 2005 02:48 am by 03 white zx3
____________________ "Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either, just fuck off and leave me alone. "
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03 white zx3 Team Focus Premier Member

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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 02:46 am |
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Chelly03PZEV wrote: I have to disagree with the statements that an APBT is a poor choice to be around childeren.
Petey, the dog - Little Rascles = APBT
Buster Brown Shoes - Dog = APBT
RCA Dog = APBT
Thugs who think it's cool to starve, beat, fight and over/inbreed your dog = stupid
The APBT is very loyal to it's 'pack'. It will protect it's members including children to the death just as any mother would for her child.
Mack has been brought up around my neice for her past 2 years from infancy to Toddelerhood and always has loved her and been gentle with her. He is the same with coroner19's girlfriend's 2+month old. He comes to her side when she cries and lays by her bed while she sleeps. At Chrissy's feet when she is holding her.
"
Not to mention Helen Keller's dog was also a pit. Plus I'm pretty sure the dog in Toyota's commercial is a pitbull also, but I could be wrong since they don't show it for very long.
No matter what the breed, a dog is still an animal and they should not be left alone together with children (imo).
Last edited on Sat Jun 25th, 2005 02:47 am by 03 white zx3
____________________ "Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either, just fuck off and leave me alone. "
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bama TF Moderator

| Joined: | Tue May 25th, 2004 |
| Location: | Temple Terrace, Florida USA |
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Posted: Sat Jun 25th, 2005 06:39 pm |
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I worked at a kennel for a year and had multiple pits come stay the weekend with us. We also had rotts, dobies, and tons of german shepherds including one who was protection trained (who worshipped the ground I walked on) and never had a problem with any of them. We simply walked in in the morning to a whole slew of big droolie wiggle worms barking in excitement just wanting to be loved and played with. The worst behavior we had was one pit named Neitzche who destroyed every blanket bed or stuffed animal that he could get his mouth on.
This is the list of dogs we had the caution stickers on and did not go into the cages unless they were shifted outside
every chow that walked in the door, the shar peis, a couple damnations, the cockers, a great dane, three cane corsos who lived in the same family that could not be in the same room because they would try to kill each other and anyone besides the male owner, a husky that bit the vet and would try to get a hold on anyone else (although the owner said the dog was a big lovebug), and an Australian Shepherd who would need a human sacrifice just to go through the shift door. And I do mean a human sacrifice. Some one would have to go into the ouside cage blowing kisses at him and wait till the last possible second of the charge (BIIIIGGGG teeth) and then jump quickly out of the cage. We were the only facility that would board him so that's why we had to have the routine with him
I didn't really hold it against the chows and shar peis because they were just trying to get revenge on us humans since we ate their ancestors.
We had one other problem dog named Mr. Cuddles. And no he wasn't very cuddley. But him and I had a discussion and he was as sweet as he could be.
I also taught obedience classes and the problem dogs were the Basset hounds, sharpeis and a damnation. Non of the "aggressive" breeds caused a problem
Pits are classified as a "bully" breed. There is actually a book at the local stores that is on nothing but bully breeds. They are wonderful with people when socialized and trained correctly but are dog agressive. Get one, lavish attention on it, spoil it rotten (provided the dog does his job) and leave it at that. DON'T BREED. Unless you are doing it to IMPROVE the breed then get the freaking dog neutered. You boys who have a complex about your dog not having any heuvos, there is a beautiful invention called neuticles. Pay the extra money to those installed and no one but you the vet and the dog will know.There are so many people down here who feel it necessary to mix two different breeds of dogs, poodles and labradors (labradoodles), Pomeranians and shit zus, poodles and shit zus (Shit-a-poos) and the such. And people will pay humdreds and hundreds of dollars for these mutts. Want a mutt? go to the pound. My mothere wanted to breed her new standard poodle even though the dog has a severe underbite. "I could breed her for her temperment". That started the three hour lecture of not breeding a dog because of personality or because a female should have at least one litter. That's good. Let's make the dog suceptible to pyrometria and ovarian cancer and mammary cancer and all sorts of fun stuff because "the dog should have at least one litter" Forget that.
Okay I think I have ranted enough.This is just something that I am very passionate about and it bugs me when idiots get dogs becuase they are cool and make stupid decisions gee like I don't know...LOCKING THEIR CHILD IN A BASEMENT BECAUSE THE DOGS ARE ACTING AGGRESSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Damn crack monkeys. I had to double check the article to make sure it wasn' in Tampa
____________________ I'm carless now. Stupid teenager
bama@teamfocus.us
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Mr. Versatile TF Senior Moderator

| Joined: | Wed May 26th, 2004 |
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Posted: Sun Jun 26th, 2005 05:21 am |
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Here's some stats for you. The most recnt I could find are from 1997-98. It's difficult to accumulate stats for the frequency of dog bites by breeds, mostly because of mixed breeds. Mixed breeds constitute most of the attacks simply because they are much more numerous than pure breeds. Looking only at pure-bred dogs the CDC (Council For Disease Center), stastics reveal that the dogs most likely to bite are as follows: Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepards, Doberman Pincers, Chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. The following is some more info I found. It's a little long, but worth the time.
Dog Bite Statistics
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In the last several years a surfeit of statistical informaton about dog bites have been generated by epidemiologists. This information has become widely disseminated on the internet, partially in an attempt to lessen the extent of the problem through education and increased public awareness about the circumstances and the kind of dogs known to be associated with attacks on people. Collecting dog bite statistics is certainly an important and valid area of public health inquiry: the frequency of dog bites is high and the emotional and physical damage inflicted onto a human, particularly a child, from an attack by a dog can be great. A better understanding of the epidemiology of dog bites thru description with statistics may help in the prevention of this widespread phenomenon.
The information presented below has been gathered from numerous sources, many of which include news reports on the internet. The reader should assumed the information below is accurate, although no attempt at independent validation has been made by this author.
Facts & Stats about Dog Bites & Dog Aggression
There are approximately 4.5 million reported dog bites annually in the United States (nearly 2% of the American population). The majority of dog bites are never reported to local authorities.
40% of American dog owners acquired pets primarily for protection-including German shepherds, Rottweilers, mastiffs and Doberman pinschers. (Source: New York Times, 2/26/01)
Nationwide, U.S. Postal Service carriers suffered 3,423 dog attacks and bites in 2003.
According to the American Medical Association, dog bites are the second leading cause of childhood injury, surpassing playground accidents.
Dog bites to people of the male gender are approximately two times greater than the incidence involving females.
Dogs that are licensed with an identifiable owner are implicated in the vast majority of dog bites (compared with strays).
Dogs not known to the victim account for approximately 10 - 20% of all reported dog bites.
Dog between one and five years are involved in more dog bite incidences than dogs older than 6 years. Male dogs are more frequently involved when compared with female dogs.
Mixed breeds and not pure bred dogs are the type of dog most often involved in inflicting bites to people. The pure-bred dogs most often involved are German shepherds and Chow chows.
The list of breeds most involved in both bite injuries and fatalities changes from year to year and from one area of the country to another, depending on the popularity of the breed.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention document that a chained dog is 2.8 times more likely to bite than an unchained dog. Click here for a news story about a mauling of a 4 year old child by a chained pit bull
Canines not spayed or neutered are three times more likely to bite than sterilized ones.
Of the estimated 4.7 million people who were bitten by dogs in 1994, 800,000 sought medical care. Of these, 332,000 needed treatment in emergency rooms, and 6,000 were hospitalized. The average hospital stay for a dog-bite injury was 3.6 days.
Emergency room costs for dog bite victims in the United States was about $102 million in 1994, and overall direct medical costs was about $165 million.
The majority of dog bites to adult humans are inflicted to the lower extremities followed by bites to the upper extremities including the head, face and neck. For children, 77% of dog bite injuries are to facial areas.
According to the Insurance Information Institute, dog bites accounted for about one-quarter of all claims on homeowner's insurance, costing more than $321 million in 2003. In 2002, the latest year for which numbers are available, the average claim for a dog bite was $16,600.
Dog attacks account for one-third of all liability claims on homeowners' insurance policies. According to the Western Insurance Information Service, the insurance industry paid out more than $1 billion in dog-bite claims in 1998 alone.
From 1979 to 1996, dog attacks resulted in more than 300 human dog bite related deaths in the United States. Most of the victims were children.
Approximately 20 people die every year as a result of a dog attack in the United States. By far, the majority of the victims are children.
In the two year period from 1997 to 1998, twenty-seven people died as a result of dog bite attacks (18 in 1997, and 9 in 1998).
Annually in the United States there are approximately 20 human fatalities directly resulting from a dog attack; this number is miniscule compared with human fatalities caused by gunshot (approximately 12,000 annually), accidents (approximately 100,000 annually) or health related disease processes (click here for table) (Click here for commentary on this subject)
The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls.
In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks.
Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks in 1997 and 1998, 67% involved unrestrained dogs on the owner's property; 19% involved unrestrained dogs off the owner's property; 11% involved restrained dogs on the owner's property; and 4% involved a restrained dog off the owner's property.
Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks during 1997 and 1998, 67% involved an attack by one dog; 19% involved an attack by two dogs; and 15% involved an attack by 3 or more dogs.
From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences.
In a study reported by a retired professor from California State University at Chino, Robert Plum, it was found that one dog in 55 will bite someone seriously during the course of a year. With respect to breed differences in the tendency to inflict serious injury, Plumb estimates that when a pit bull bites a human, one in 16 (e.g. 1/16) will inflict serious injury; this contrasts with a ratio of 1/296 Dobermans, and 1/156 German shepherds.
Dog Bite Statistics from: Texas, 1997, 1998; Australia (pdf file);
The Netherlands (pdf file), New Zealand, State of Nevada (USA) (pdf file)
____________________ If you can't read this, you're illiterate.
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lil duratec TF Family Member

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Posted: Sun Jun 26th, 2005 05:51 am |
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Very interesting factoids Mr. V...
I was especially struck by the 3.6 day average visit out of 6000 hospitalizations, it just seems like a lot, I guess I never thought of it. And the fact about a chained dog being almost 3x as likely to bite as unchained.
I wasn't surprised at all about the child injuries usually being to the face. That always makes me nervous when a little kid runs to a dog face-first (I mean, I used to do it too). Even the nicest dog could mistake the child for a threat, or just think s/he wants to play and in perfect innocence nips at the child, like at a toy or something, and hurts them. Most of the kids I see run at dogs, because they're excited and well, they're kids... jsut gets the dog riled up and excited too, even in a friendly way, so that makes me nervous with kids.
I would leave my old dog with kids that are a little older or calmer, without a second thought. He was the greatest animal, so very understanding for "a beast", he always knew to be gentle around little ones, and was as patient as a saint, even with my little brother yanking on his poor tail. Probably why I love German Shepherds so much, that dog just set up a lifetime of example for me! But most dogs are moe excitable or don't know their own strength, or whatever and it can lead to unfortunate accidents. Even if a kid doesn't actually get hurt, they can definitely get scared/traumatized and then fear dogs for years later. I've always found the people that fear dogs are the worst kinds of people to know if you own a good dog (or hell, a bad-mannered one), because they cause trouble or are just scared to be around your pet, it's kinda sad, to me... and every one I've met with that reaction had some form of childhood incident to base the fear on.
It's just sad, dog bites are pretty well regarded as one of the biggest Preventable causes of childhood morbidity... clearly not through the example of people like this mother in CA.
____________________ ~Amanda~
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