well ive driven 150 miles on half a tank , whats up with this ? i havent thrown any codes or anything and the car is running fine just suckin up the gas im thinkin about callin up the dealership and tellin them to fix it because i havent even had the car for a month now. argh
150/6=25mpg.... that's really not all that bad depending on your driving habits. It's a little low, but if you're hard on the gas, or do a lot of city driving... there's nothing wrong with your car.
____________________ Project FocusFast
'06 ZX3- Intake, exhaust, mount
'01 ZX3- Salvaged, SOLD
'01 ZX3- Repo'd several years ago
'80 RX7- RB Intake, RB header. Loud, slow, fun.
150/6=25mpg.... that's really not all that bad depending on your driving habits. It's a little low, but if you're hard on the gas, or do a lot of city driving... there's nothing wrong with your car.ii belive i have a 13.4 gallon tank or something for gas tank size im not really sure. yes i am a little hard on the gas but i had a little over half and then 10 minutes later it was on half , but i did let my girlfriend drive and she doesnt know how to drive stick ( i was trying to teach her ) , but i guess it could be my habbits because ive gotten 180 miles one day out of half a tank wich is good. my main concern is gas tank size though , i guess i wont know for sure till i run her empty then ill know and all my driving is city , except for friday ill be driving to mass so if any1 sees a white 05 zx3 with maine license plates that say FATTIE just honk
I'd give it a little time yet. It's not unusual for brand new cars to be down on mileage until they get a few miles on them. At least let it run the tank out & ck the mileage when you fill up. Personally, I'd run through at least 3 tanks before I went back to the dealer. I'm not very familiar with PZEV's, but my car (2002 ZX3 5 spd) has steadily increased in mpg since I've owned it. I'm pretty easy on the speed, and really don't drive too aggressively any more. I routinely get 32-34 mpg in summer -- 29-31 in winter.
____________________ If you can't read this, you're illiterate.
how many miles does your car have on it? is it used? *cam't remember
What rpms are you shifting at?
do you do a lot of stop and go driving or are you mostly hwy? quick, short trips can do more damage on fuel mileage than long trips of at least 1/2.
I'm guessing it's the 2.0 Duratec? Unfortunately I don't know enough about them. I have the 2.3 PZEV though I've actually run her nearly dry and have put the most fuel in her recently - she took 13.69 gallons...I really pushed it and I don't think i'd go that far again.
If the car is used and has 20k on it I'd start checking your hoses, vaccum and otherwise...air filter, fuel filter and ease up on the gas pedal too
____________________ Get in, Sit down, Shut up and HANG ON!
Chelly03PZEV wrote: how many miles does your car have on it? is it used? *cam't remember
What rpms are you shifting at?
do you do a lot of stop and go driving or are you mostly hwy? quick, short trips can do more damage on fuel mileage than long trips of at least 1/2.
I'm guessing it's the 2.0 Duratec? Unfortunately I don't know enough about them. I have the 2.3 PZEV though I've actually run her nearly dry and have put the most fuel in her recently - she took 13.69 gallons...I really pushed it and I don't think i'd go that far again.
If the car is used and has 20k on it I'd start checking your hoses, vaccum and otherwise...air filter, fuel filter and ease up on the gas pedal too
its used , has 38k for miles and yes its the 2 liter, mostly all short trips, i would of thought the dealer would of checked those things.
There are so many variables that affect mileage. Now that its getting cold, everyones mileage is going to go down.
When it gets cold the air is denser, more oxygen per same volume, O2 sensors read this and add fuel to keep the mixture in the correct range. They are no longer distributing winter or oxygenated fuel, or if they are it is in very select areas, so while I never subscribed to the fact that it was a major source of fuel economy decreases in the winter time, at least not as much as the winter air itself, we at least wont have to worry about that any longer.
150 miles on half a tank is pretty below normal in my opinion, particularly for an MTX Focus. At 38k miles I feel you are pretty much past the break in period so engine tightness shouldnt be an issue. I would ask, how much you idle the car? With the cooler weather upon us are you letting it warm up any when you start it up on the mornings?
I can tell you from personal experience and from seeing the oil analysis results of not only my vehicles but others as well, that this is a major contributor to fuel mileage reduction. If you do a lot of short trip driving it further compounds the issue because the oil never gets hot enough to evaporate any fuel dilution. This in turn thins out the oil, reduces boundry layer lubrication and thus increase friction which in turn causes more fuel consumption. Learning this, from seeing the oil analysis had a major affect on my habbits of letting my cars warm up. Rarely now do I let the car idle for more than a minute or two, just enough to get the oil pump to pushing the oil throughout the system. Further more, if I dont from normal work and such, I make a point to get it on the highway for a good 15 - 20 minutes so that the oil get up to temperature and evaporates any fuel and condensation.
Next thing would be to check the basics, plugs, wires, air filter, fuel filter, tire pressur, etc. I wouldnt think that you have an issue with any of those with that little mileage, but anything is possible. Get you a bottle of Amsoil P.I. Quick Shot and run through a tank to clean out the injectors and upper combustion areas. May not have any effect then again it could, its more of an attempt to try and eliminate something.
Short trip driving is the worse for mileage, even in with an MTX. I will tell you know, with the car in my signature I get in combined driving (highway and city) around 26 - 27 mpg average. All highway I can hit 32 - 33 depending on the conditions I average around 31.5. Change my driving to all city, stop and go, and I can drop my mileage to low, low 20's and more depending on how aggressive I get.
There is so much that can affect mileage its insane. One of the first things I would do is start documenting your mileage. I get a reciept on EVERY fuel purchase I make. I ALWAYS fill it completely full and I write down on every ticket trip odometer mileage and the main odometer mileage. I bet I have close to 200,000 miles of fuel reciepts. I keep all that information in a software program where I can see/study trends. You can also use an excel spreadsheet. Establish a trend first and see if its something consistent or something that is varying with driving habits, weather or the type of driving being done. You would be really surprised at what you can discover with that information. Its totally changed the way I drive in many ways. Im still an aggressive driver but Im more watchful of when and where now, that sorta thing.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
SyntheticShield wrote: There are so many variables that affect mileage. Now that its getting cold, everyones mileage is going to go down.
When it gets cold the air is denser, more oxygen per same volume, O2 sensors read this and add fuel to keep the mixture in the correct range. They are no longer distributing winter or oxygenated fuel, or if they are it is in very select areas, so while I never subscribed to the fact that it was a major source of fuel economy decreases in the winter time, at least not as much as the winter air itself, we at least wont have to worry about that any longer
150 miles on half a tank is pretty below normal in my opinion, particularly for an MTX Focus. At 38k miles I feel you are pretty much past the break in period so engine tightness shouldnt be an issue. I would ask, how much you idle the car? With the cooler weather upon us are you letting it warm up any when you start it up on the mornings?
i only let it warm up for maybe a minute before work , but i jump in start er up and go, sometimes when i stop somewhere i forget to shut the car off , sometimes i leave it running for 10-20 minutes at a time, i guess ill stop that.
I can tell you from personal experience and from seeing the oil analysis results of not only my vehicles but others as well, that this is a major contributor to fuel mileage reduction. If you do a lot of short trip driving it further compounds the issue because the oil never gets hot enough to evaporate any fuel dilution. This in turn thins out the oil, reduces boundry layer lubrication and thus increase friction which in turn causes more fuel consumption. Learning this, from seeing the oil analysis had a major affect on my habbits of letting my cars warm up. Rarely now do I let the car idle for more than a minute or two, just enough to get the oil pump to pushing the oil throughout the system. Further more, if I dont from normal work and such, I make a point to get it on the highway for a good 15 - 20 minutes so that the oil get up to temperature and evaporates any fuel and condensation. well i live 20 mintues away from town , so the oil always gets plenty warm , so that shuldnt be a problem. the oil in it only has 1k miles , and its semi synthetic motor craft oil from the dealer.
Next thing would be to check the basics, plugs, wires, air filter, fuel filter, tire pressur, etc. I wouldnt think that you have an issue with any of those with that little mileage, but anything is possible. Get you a bottle of Amsoil P.I. Quick Shot and run through a tank to clean out the injectors and upper combustion areas. May not have any effect then again it could, its more of an attempt to try and eliminate something. ill check the plugs but they should be good, as for wires i dont really have traditional wires i have coils right on my plugs with just normal black wires i dont think they ever go bad, but ill check air filter and everything. i ran a crap load of lucal fuel system cleaner and lburicant through it so it should be cleaned out inside if there was even anything in there,
Short trip driving is the worse for mileage, even in with an MTX. I will tell you know, with the car in my signature I get in combined driving (highway and city) around 26 - 27 mpg average. All highway I can hit 32 - 33 depending on the conditions I average around 31.5. Change my driving to all city, stop and go, and I can drop my mileage to low, low 20's and more depending on how aggressive I get. im going to worcerster mass today so im going to be getting plenty of highway miles to see how she does, hopefully good
There is so much that can affect mileage its insane. One of the first things I would do is start documenting your mileage. I get a reciept on EVERY fuel purchase I make. I ALWAYS fill it completely full and I write down on every ticket trip odometer mileage and the main odometer mileage. I bet I have close to 200,000 miles of fuel reciepts. I keep all that information in a software program where I can see/study trends. You can also use an excel spreadsheet. Establish a trend first and see if its something consistent or something that is varying with driving habits, weather or the type of driving being done. You would be really surprised at what you can discover with that information. Its totally changed the way I drive in many ways. Im still an aggressive driver but Im more watchful of when and where now, that sorta thing. thanks for the help and ill try some stuff and see if it helps, hopefully this trip to mass will show me better mpg results.
Cool, keep us posted as to how things go. Sorry for the long post, but hey, what can I say, I like to be thourough.
I didnt realize you had the coil on plug design. Its a better design if not necessarily for the consumer in the cost of it, but for efficiency its a better design. But dont rule out an issue there.
Just a quick example. A customer recently came to me with 2002 Dodge truck that was experiencing horrible fuel economy. He was gettig ready to trade it in actually because of the cost of fuel. He spoke to me and asked if I had any ideas. So I hooked up my scan tool and started taking readings. First thing that jumped out at me was a horribly looking O2 sensor signal. The sensor itself was working fine, but the signal it was reading from exhaust pulses looked terrible.
I kept digging and check the trouble codes and found a P0300, general misfire non-cylinder specific. I reset the code and all seems fine but the O2 signal remains horrible. I ruled out a bad plug because there would have been obvioius indications of that. The engine, however did not seem to be running as smoothly as it should.
He too had the coil on plug ignition. So we started inspecting. We found that on the #6 cylinder, one of the wires to the ignition coil was damaged and nearly cut completely through. The customer later discovered he had a rat crawling up in his engine bay and was chewing on the wiring, specifically the #6 cylinder ignition wiring.
An extreme case, yes, but it goes to show you that you just cant rule anything out.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
I will add this and then let it be. I get a lot of people complaining of fuel economy and until I bought and started using a scan tool I didnt realize the simple solution of it, but also how wide spread the issue is.
So prevelant the issue is that when I get a call to hook up my scan tool its among the first thing I check. The O2 sensors. You would be utterly amazed at just how many I find that either are completely fried or so borderline that they are essentially ineffective. It seems, and I want to make clear that IT SEEMS that the pattern is that it lies in the low grade gas. I see the issue across different models, years, etc, the main commanality is the low grade 87 octane gas. That said, Im not advocating everyone start using high grade gas.
It could also be the incorrect or over use of fuel additives and cleaners. I know some you can get off the shelf are not healthy for O2 sensors. And for what its worth, when an octane booster says it will boost your octane 10 points, it doesnt mean you go from 87 to 97, those numbers are in tenths. So with a 10 point boost in octane you go from an 87 to an 88 and many of them tend to be rough on O2 sensors.
Anyway, more info to ponder.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
SyntheticShield wrote: I will add this and then let it be. I get a lot of people complaining of fuel economy and until I bought and started using a scan tool I didnt realize the simple solution of it, but also how wide spread the issue is.
So prevelant the issue is that when I get a call to hook up my scan tool its among the first thing I check. The O2 sensors. You would be utterly amazed at just how many I find that either are completely fried or so borderline that they are essentially ineffective. It seems, and I want to make clear that IT SEEMS that the pattern is that it lies in the low grade gas. I see the issue across different models, years, etc, the main commanality is the low grade 87 octane gas. That said, Im not advocating everyone start using high grade gas.
It could also be the incorrect or over use of fuel additives and cleaners. I know some you can get off the shelf are not healthy for O2 sensors. And for what its worth, when an octane booster says it will boost your octane 10 points, it doesnt mean you go from 87 to 97, those numbers are in tenths. So with a 10 point boost in octane you go from an 87 to an 88 and many of them tend to be rough on O2 sensors.
Anyway, more info to ponder.i can afford premium gas , would you reccomend it or just cheapo fuel ? i kow how 02 sensors are, i had to replace the one in my 89 sierra and it ran so much better. well the 27th i drove to worcester mass , and came back yesterday about 450 miles round trip and used a tank and a half of gas , but i was going probly an average of 75 the whole way. i did max the car out on a clear straight stretch and hit 110 before it cut out ( beat my gf's 01 cavilere by 5mph ) but i havent done the math yet but i think i shouldnt of used that much gas on the highways and interstae turnpikes whatever they are. but ive heard driving 55-65 is the optimum speed for fuel consumption. hmm
NO you don't want to run a higher octane. By "premium" gas, he means a good QUALITY brand of gasoline.
The only 87 octane fuels that I know of that are "premium" fuels are Shell and BP. They have passed "top tier" testing, and are essentially the best gas you can put in your car.
Here's another tip. Every oil change, change what brand of fuel you use. Different brands of fuel use different additives, which eventually cause buildup in your combustion chamber. But if you switch every 3000 miles or more, the new brand will clean out the deposits left by the old brand. Don't change brands every time you get gas, however. Think about it this way, if you have blue paint (BP) and yellow paint (Shell), and you fill your paint bucket up with yellow over and over and over for the next 10 times you fill up, you'll have a little bit of yellow paint left in the bottom of the bucket when the bucket is empty. So next time you fill the bucket, you put in the Blue paint, you'll have a slightly green paint, but mostly blue, and the more times you fill the bucket with blue paint, the more blue it gets. Then vice-versa. If you change fuel brands every time you get gas, you're mixing the additives, which makes them harder to get rid of, hurting your performance.
Moral of the story, run a good name brand fuel, BP or Shell, not Citgo. Also, change between Shell and BP every time you change your oil, to help keep deposits to a minimum.
____________________ Project FocusFast
'06 ZX3- Intake, exhaust, mount
'01 ZX3- Salvaged, SOLD
'01 ZX3- Repo'd several years ago
'80 RX7- RB Intake, RB header. Loud, slow, fun.
ProjectFocusFast wrote: NO you don't want to run a higher octane. By "premium" gas, he means a good QUALITY brand of gasoline.
The only 87 octane fuels that I know of that are "premium" fuels are Shell and BP. They have passed "top tier" testing, and are essentially the best gas you can put in your car.
Here's another tip. Every oil change, change what brand of fuel you use. Different brands of fuel use different additives, which eventually cause buildup in your combustion chamber. But if you switch every 3000 miles or more, the new brand will clean out the deposits left by the old brand. Don't change brands every time you get gas, however. Think about it this way, if you have blue paint (BP) and yellow paint (Shell), and you fill your paint bucket up with yellow over and over and over for the next 10 times you fill up, you'll have a little bit of yellow paint left in the bottom of the bucket when the bucket is empty. So next time you fill the bucket, you put in the Blue paint, you'll have a slightly green paint, but mostly blue, and the more times you fill the bucket with blue paint, the more blue it gets. Then vice-versa. If you change fuel brands every time you get gas, you're mixing the additives, which makes them harder to get rid of, hurting your performance.
Moral of the story, run a good name brand fuel, BP or Shell, not Citgo. Also, change between Shell and BP every time you change your oil, to help keep deposits to a minimum.
i see what you mean. i dont belive we have shell or bp around here. everytime i get gas i get it at a different place, i thought all gas was the same, guess ill have to pick a place now. you say no on citgo ? its gunna be hard only filling up at one spot especialy if o go on a trip. so normal (87 octane) is the best ?
Yes. 87 Octane is what our cars were designed for. Any more octane and all you're doing is polluting more.
What stations do you have around you?
It is hard on a long trip to use the same gas, so don't worry about it too much in that situation. But Shell and BP gas are the best available if you can find them. Avoid "Mom + Pop" stores which don't have a "brand" of gasoline- you never know what you're getting.
____________________ Project FocusFast
'06 ZX3- Intake, exhaust, mount
'01 ZX3- Salvaged, SOLD
'01 ZX3- Repo'd several years ago
'80 RX7- RB Intake, RB header. Loud, slow, fun.
Im going to have to pick on James some, so dont get mad at me Jame.
However I dont really agree with the change the gas suggestion, but that is me. I have bought gas at the same station for the past two years. Before I moved where I am now, I bought at the same gas station there for several years over a few different cars. Quick Trip is the place and they are top tier rated as well.
The major differences between octanes is the burn stability. The reason some notice a performance difference with higher octanes is because the higher octanes are more stable and the computer can add timing. I also dont agree that you pollute more with higher octanes either.
You dont need to use a higher octane for your vehicle, I have to because of the blower and it requires a higher octane to prevent KR. I run 91 octane but would much rather use 93 if it were available around here.
It really boils down to this. Gas is gas. Its really that simple. There are only a hand full of gas producers in this country and so while you may buy your gas at hundreds of different places under different names, it boils down to that they all get their gas from these hand full of producers. Gas is mandated by the government to be produced a certain way and with a certain level of additives. The only difference after that is purely in the octane levels you want to use.
I do agree with James on the fact that you want to try and avoid the mom and pop stores because their fuel inventory may sit in the tanks for much longer periods of time and collect moisture and/or contamination from the tanks.
I dont know for fact, but I think you have a 13 gallon tank, and a tank and a half would translate to 19.5 gallons is around 23mpg which is much much less than I would expect you to get. In my focus I could get, on all highway, over 400 miles easily. So I would say you are using more fuel than would be expected, but again there are so many variables its difficult to pin it on any one thing. I wish you were closer, we could hook up my scan tool and I could monitor some things and see if anything popped out.
Ive pushed 570 miles on my current car in an all highway drive and thats in a supercharged V6 on 93 octane. Id have to look at the records to see what the max was I did on the focus but I seem to recall I pushed 450 or so miles on just one tank.
I dont know what to suggest at this point other than maybe take it to Ford and let them put it on their test stand and check things out. Be sure to get a COMPLETE report if you do that and give them as much specific information as you can.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
this may sound dumb but i havnt seen anyone ask....
how are you judging milage? your saying 150 to half a tank.
only effective way to find out is fill up, reset the trip meter to zero, drive till you fill up again. then take your milage you drove and divide it by the gallons you just put in.
going by the seat of the pants im at half a tank and ive only gone XXX miles isnt accurate at all.
that and the way the level sendes on the focus is set up, its not the most accurate unless the tank is full or empty. the float swings in an arc up and down unlike the old style floats that slid up and down a rod in a straight line.
im thinkin about callin up the dealership and tellin them to fix it because i havent even had the car for a month now. argh
