Got my oil analysis back today after taking a sample with 8300 miles on the oil. Im pleased to say that everything is nearly perfect. The results are below.
Wear Metals:
Iron - 7ppm
Chromium - 0 (Can also be a contaminant)
Lead - 0 (Can also be an additive or contaminant)
Copper - 9ppm (Can also be an additive, wear metal in this case)
Tin - 0
Aluminum - 3ppm
Nickel - 0
Silver - 0
Silicon - 11ppm (Can also be an additive or contaminant. In this case it is a contaminant). More on this in a bit.
Additives:
Boron - 30ppm (Can also be a contaminant)
Sodium - 2ppm (Can also be a contaminat)
Magnesium - 761ppm
Calcium - 1896ppm
Barium - 0
Phosphorus - 975ppm
Zinc - 1289ppm (This additive performs a last line of defense against metal to metal contact in case the barrier pressure of the oil is exceeded. In other words, if to moving parts come together with enough force as to force all the oil from between the two surfaces, the zinc will remain in a defense against actual metal to metal contact)
Molybdenum - 0
Titanium - 0
Vanadium - 0
Potassium - 0
Physical properties:
Fuel dilution - less than 1% by volume
Viscosity @100 degrees C (cSt)-12.12 (This is still a 30W oil but is approaching the point it will be a borderline 40W oil). More on this in a bit also.
Water - 0
Glycol - 0
TBN - 9.13 (Series 2000 0W30 oil has a TBN of about 11 out of the bottle. So in 8300 miles I still have a great deal of life left in the oil)
Oxidation - 19.0 (Causes increased viscosity and acid formation)
Nitration - 17.0 (Causes sludge and varnish formation)
50ppm is the max for Oxidation and Nitration for a synthetic oil.
Okay, the synopsis. Iron levels are down (11ppm on last analysis) and copper is up (7ppm on last analysis), so was aluminum (2ppm on last analysis). Nothing to be concerned about. Just to give you an example of how good the oil is doing, other factors aside, Iron wont be flagged as a problem until it reaches around 100ppm and as you can see I'm WELL below that. Copper becomes abnormal at 50ppm, Aluminum at 15ppm. Even the one thing that was substantially higher, in relative terms, Silicon isnt a problem until it reaches 25ppm. My last analysis had Silicon at 4ppm.
Now, the silicon is a concern to me because this tells me something I already knew. It tells me that I am getting dirt in the engine, most likely from the air filtration. However, I know why that is so. Several times my air intake came loose at the throttle body and I suspect it pulled in a little extra dirt. I have since taken care of the situation, at least I believe so, and will have to wait until the next analysis to confirm that.
The additive package is still VERY strong and has a lot of life left. I still have over 80% of the original TBN capability of the oil. The only thing of concern, and I say it lightly, is the viscosity. The oil is still a 30W oil but is getting close to going out of those limits. As to whats causing it Im not sure. Oxidation and Nitration levels definately indicate that this should be the case but what is causing it Im not sure as of yet. Both Nitration and Oxidation are nearly identical as the last analysis I did. My theory is that the 4cyl motor is just exceptionaly harsh on this oil quite possibly because I push it hard on occasion, and/or there is some cleaning going on in the motor from the additive package and synthetic base, though I think the former is more likely. The oil has handled it VERY well, but I wish it were a tad bit better.
Overall, the oil is doing EXTREMELY well and the by-pass system is clearly doing its job. I would expect the numbers to be double if not more for a motor without the bypass system using the same oil for the same duration. Given all this Im still impressed with the oil, I can say with great confidence that a conventional oil would have not even come close with the way I drive and for the miles on the oil.
However, there is an oil that is even better. I have a customer that uses the Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel and Gasoline oil (In a 2003 Dode Diesel Truck) and he had an analysis done at the same time I did. However he has 19,500 miles on his oil and his numbers are only VERY VERY slightly worse than mine. Now, what makes this impressive is 1.) He does not have a by-pass system installed, and 2.) he went those 19,500 miles on the same oil filter. He got flagged for copper levels, no doubt because of the duration on the oil and I think the motor is still breaking in being a diesel. But the oil was still good, and the lab just said to change the oil filter which we have done. You would think that that many miles on an oil would cause it to thicken up substantially. Not in his case. His viscosity was 11.52. The range for a 30W oil is 9.3 - 12.5. So he is near middle of the road, with 19,500 miles on one filter and no by-pass. Now tell me Amsoil isnt a quality and worthy product. By the way, I did make it clear to him that for a diesel motor he should be changing that filter around the 7500 - 8000 mile range. But if his analysis continues to show this good, we may push that out to around 10,000 miles.
So that is the report. The Focus is doing really really well. Viscosity aside the report is near perfect. Though once I get done with the 0W30 oil I am going to be switching over to the Series 3000 5W30 oil though if the viscosity doesnt go wild on me that wont be until probably next summer.
Oh, the lab commented that the oil was good for continued use. If you have any questions feel free to post them and I'll do my best to answer them.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
Dan is coming up on his year with his series 2k oil change. Unfortunately, we've not done any analysis - I need to, but will do that once I've done the full life of the series 2k and change. Finances have been restrictive.
I'm very curious about the bypass and the series 3k and how those will work together.
Thanks for the info and keep it coming. Once I've had the opportunity to get some kits and get to my change, I'll begin my testing as well.
____________________ Get in, Sit down, Shut up and HANG ON!
TXFO wrote: cool. maybe its time to switch..................................
how did the oil look, all black?
It is dark, but you can still see through to the dipstick (if that is any type of judgement indicator, LOL). Honestly though, I expect it to get dark to some degree simply because of the sub micronic particles that get in the oil. Typically not large enough to cause any significant wear but nonetheless stay suspended in the oil. As well heat plays a part in discoloration of the oil. But keep in mind that the color of the oil is not a real indication of how good the oil is doing. If you have any kind of sludge, dirt, build up, etc. in the motor then the oil is going to darken as well. The oil is designed to do a certain amount of cleaning. It wont clean it in one use, but will do so little by little and this is going to darken the oil. It doesnt mean the oil is wasted, quite the contrary, its doing its job.
As a litmus test and certainly not scientific, you can take the oil off your dipstick and rub it between your fingers and if you get a 'gritty' feel from it, most likely your filter is not doing its job. Again, thats not a scientific method or conclusive, just a litmus type indication.
TXFO, since you are building up a motor, if you do get interested in using Amsoil, I would recommend using the Series 3000 5W30. It just has a beefier additive package and better TBN. It would just give you a bit more added protection.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
The Series 3000 5W30 has a flash point of 457 degrees, the fire point is 482 degrees. Is this the information you wanted? If not let me know.
If I have understood correctly you are looking for what the operating temperature range of the oil is. And to answer that directly, I dont think there is a test specifically for that, i.e., use this oil only for engine temps between 200 - 350 degrees F. If I understand my training thus far and the Amsoil data sheets the flash and fire points are used for this information. So if you operated under 457 degrees, you should be good to go. I think you would be hard pressed to find a conventional oil that could opperate in that range as well. I could be wrong, but I just dont see it happening because of all the stabilizing additives they have to add to conventional oil.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
just looking for a good oil that wont burn in the turbo bearing and "coke them". Ideally I would like to find one good enough that I could use it in a non water cooled bearing for 5000mi intervals.
Well I will say that turbo's are hard on ANY oil period. Even with the Series 3000 oil they recommend instead of 35,000 mile OCI, to go just three times longer than the manufacturer recommended OCI. So with that I would say that you could easily do close to 10k miles and should be good to go.
What I would recommend is, if you were interested, is to use either the XL-7500 oil which is good for 7500 mile or six months or the 25,000 mile oil then do an oil analysis every 3 months or 6 months and see how the oil is holding up. If its doing good, change the filter and go on until the oil analysis says its time to change the oil.
My suggestion would be to start with the XL7500. The reason for this is that even with a turbo charger it is still rated for 7500 miles or six months. Furthermore, with a new motor and turbo to boot you are probably going to have high wear metals to start with as the motor breaks in unless you choose to break it in on conventional oil. And for those that think you cant break a motor in on synthetic oil, then consider that a lot of european cars and some domestic cars already come from the factory with synthetic oil already in them. However, that being said, there is no sense in spending the money on a high quality oil just to have to change it early because of the break in process.
If the XL7500 oil holds up for six months with no problems then you could probably switch to the 25,000 mile oil and just change the oil filter at regular intervals and do an oil analysis every six months until you establish how far out you can go.
If you have any questions, just post them up and I'll do my best to answer them.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
Daniel, in the instance of adding the Turbo into the equasion - would you suggest something similar to the European Engine oil or even the series 3000 deisel oil?
I'm just throwing things out there due to the added Turbo etc.
____________________ Get in, Sit down, Shut up and HANG ON!
I wouldnt want to use anything thats meant for huge intervals like 25K or 35K miles. its not the lubrication thats harmful, its the oil singing the instant it touches the turbo shaft bearing and leaving a build up of burn residue. If its especially prone (typical of dinosaur oil) then it needs to be changed at no more than 3000 miles to prevent a severe build up. Eventually what happens is the burned on crud. piles up so much that it stops the flow of oil across the bearings and then everything crashes.
Chelly02 wrote: Daniel, in the instance of adding the Turbo into the equasion - would you suggest something similar to the European Engine oil or even the series 3000 deisel oil?
I'm just throwing things out there due to the added Turbo etc.
TXFO is right in that it is the heat of the turbo that destroys the oil. However Amsoil does say to reduce the drain interval from 25k to three times of the manufacturer recommended OCI. So that would put most vehicles with turbo's around a 15k OCI. And I share TXFO's concern about the heat issue. Synthetic or not, turbo's are extremely tough on an oil. So to answer TXFO directly, then I would recommend the XL-7500 line up. It will get you further you wanted to go, but not the real extended OCI. And just so you know, the additive package in the XL7500 oil is very similar to the 25k mile oil. Just a couple additives were reduced to meet the API certification process.
So TXFO, if you like, try the XL-7500 5W30 or 5W20 and run it for the 7500 miles or if you like the 5000 miles you were shooting for. Then at the end of that time, do an oil analysis and see what the lab says. But I bet you they come back and tell you the oil is still good. To address your concerns on the coking, the XL7500 oil has a beefy enough additive package and TBN level coupled with a shorter OCI that you would be fine with that. In addition if you run the Amsoil SDF-34 filter you will get great filtration with extremely good oil flow.
Chelly, if it were me and since I am comfortable with the extended OCI's, I would certainly run the Series 3000 oil because it has such an extremely stout additive package and awsomely high TBN value. I believe it is among the highest TBN levels you can get period, but dont quote me on that.
In the case of a 4cyl turbo charged motor I would do oil analysis though at about 7500 mile intervals until I established that the oil would be fine beyond the 15k mile mark, which Im really confident it would be. The reason for this is that 4cyl's are higher revving and generate more heat. Trucks such as turbo diesel trucks arent as high revving and have more engine bay space and so run a bit cooler and are a little less stressful on the oil, but I would still do an oil analysis at probably 10k intervals just to make sure contaminations stay in check. If contamination got out of hand it would indicate that the turbo may be causing breakdown due to the heat of the turbo and would indicate possible coking as TXFO is concerned with. If those things stayed in check, then I would just continue to change the filters at the proper intervals and keep on going.
But again, I believe Amsoil is more than up to the task of handling the heat, but I certainly understand TXFO's concerns and would probably be as cautious as he is until I established everything would be okay. Im not as familiar with the 5W40 European oil so I cant really speak to that just yet. I need to check out that oil and find out though so Im personally better informed.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
So what is the consences here...I use Series 2000 0W30 and change my filter and oil every 7500 miles in my SVTF...(I know I can go longer but choose not to)....Do you think the Series 3000 5W30 would be a better choice? Just wondering.
____________________ 02 SVT Focus, CD Silver, No. 2032.
Well the jury is out on that. If you are changing your filter that often, then you are adding oil at each change as well which would 'prop up' the oil and help the viscosity. So I would say that your oil is probably okay, but the only way to be certain is to do an oil analysis.
Im going to wait until the next analysis before I decide whether to make any changes or not. With my oil analysis at the 8000+ mile mark I will continue with that and that will put an oil change in the middle before the next analysis and that will tell me whether or not the make up oil will keep things stable.
Dont get me wrong, the Series 2000 oil is a darn good oil, and the viscosity can go one grade out of spec (in other words it can become a 40W oil) before it will be flagged as needing to be changed. Im still well within that and since my filter holds nearly a quart of oil, I sure that the viscosity will be improved greatly on the next analysis. If that pans out and shows up on the oil analysis then I will feel better. Im not concerned about the oil at all and whether or not its doing its job. I just would have rather seen the viscosity just a tad more stable.
The Series 3000 oil is only better in the sense that it has a better additive package and higher TBN to account for its use in diesel trucks. The Series 3000 is going to be a slightly more stable oil. I use the Series 2000 primarily because it will flow a bit quicker and start lubricating a bit faster than the Series 3000 will. If you are already using the 0W30 oil and changing your filter every 7500 miles, then I would say stick with it. I personally would pull an oil sample to be analyzed at about 20-25k miles just to show for sure the oil was staying stable.
There are trade offs between the Series 2000 and Series 3000 oils. You just have to determine which one is better for your need. Personally I would and will stick with the Series 2000 until the analysis gives me indication that I should try something else. Im running 6.5 quarts of oil so I have an advantage in that regard, so what my results show on the analysis may not be what you get with a 4.5 quart system.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
Where do you get an oil analysis kit? I'd like to get my oil analyzed...
What filter are people using with Amsoil? I used the SDF-34 several times...now I'm told it is not the correct filter to use with the SVTF....so I'm back to a NAPA filter and change the whole oil at 6,000 miles.
Last edited on Thu Jan 13th, 2005 01:21 pm by Blurry
____________________ 02 SVT Focus, CD Silver, No. 2032.
