So here we are, I have results from an oil analysis done on my series 2000 0W-30 that I had in my car. This oil comes from Amsoil out of the bottle with a lifetime of 35,000 miles. About 2 weeks before my first filter change was due I started to notice my fuel mileage was starting to suffer, I figured that was just an indication that it was filter time. So at about 12500 miles I did the filter change, and top off. For the next couple of weeks my gas mileage further continued to worsen, to the point where I had a 20mpg tank of gas (scary considering my normal gas mileage is 30mpg). On a moderately cold morning (15-20ºF) my car refused to start, sluggishly turning over once, and then stalling, so I did tried again, and it sluggishly turned over twice, I decided that something must be wrong and I popped the hood, got out and looked. The battery contacts were good, and everything about the car looked fine, so I checked the oil, and to my dismay I found the oil was so thick on the dipstick that I had to forcefully wipe it off, it had the consistency of cold molasses, needless to say I was a little bit concerned. I got back in the car and tried starting it again and it did, reluctantly but it did. I talked with Dan (SyntheticShield) about this and he recommended that I drain the oil, and put in something else (Motorcraft 5W-20) and save some samples from the oil as it drained and he'd send me an analysis. And here are those results:
Time on oil: 14573 miles
Time on Car: 53100 miles
Iron 10
Chromium 1
Lead 1
Copper 8
Tin 0
Aluminum 3
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 7
Boron 23
Sodium 8
Magnesium 825
Calcium 2063
Barium 0
Phosphorus 1005
Zinc 1392
Molybdenum 3
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Potassium 0
Fuel (%vol) <1
VIS @ 100ºC (cSt) 15.90
Water (%vol) 0
Glycol Negative
Oxidation 13.0
Nitration 12.0
TBN 5.13
Now of all of this the Viscosity stands out the most. at 15.90 it is way out of range for a 30W oil and at the high end of a 40W oil. Which would explain why at cold temperature it was having an issue. However, wear metals remained in check, and all the other numbers fall in line with normal results. So what exactly caused this pretty extreme thickening. Well there are a few suggestions, one possibly being that this oil was in an autocross, the higher RPM's and heat may have led to premature breakdown of the oil as it tried to protect the engine. The only fault that I find in this argument is that the engine temperature should never really exceed the normal operating temperature unless my cooling system failed, and since that hasn't happen I'm leery to think that was the case. However, I wouldn't rule it out. Other ideas that were provided were that the PCV valve could be faulty, but on my car that was replaced only a few thousand miles before I switched over to the Series 2000 initially, though what the shelf life of these things is I don't know. Fuel mix was offered as an option, and I won't pretend to know anything about that. However, since I'm wary about the chance that this may happen again, I think I'm going to come down from the 35,000 miles oil probably back to the XL-7500 again. I had a really good experience with that, and we will probably try and see if the "7500" mile lifespan is a conservative estimate or if I can extend that safely beyond that limit to maybe 10K or 15K miles. If so then I'll probably do that. I just thought that everyone would want to know. And I'm sure Dan will be in here to go over some of this in more detail.
Last edited on Fri Jan 21st, 2005 07:24 pm by RPIJG
Ive talked to Joe about this which he outlined pretty much all we discussed in the post. 14.5k on any oil is quite a feat in and of itself. I have no reservations saying a petroleum oil would have died a horrible death a long time before this oil did. That being said, however, it falls short of the 35k that it should be able to do.
The analysis unfortunately give no definative answer as to why the viscosity went so far south, it does, however rule out some things.
1. Notice the extremely low wear numbers, particularly iron, copper and aluminum. The way you read an oil analysis is ppm/mile, that is contaminants in parts per million per mile. So in 14.5k mile on the same oil (approx. 5.25 qts) Joe had 10 ppm in iron, a significant wear indicator that is even more significantly low given the mileage on the oil. Considering he has no bypass system this is a very impressive number. So based on this we know the viscosity did not go south due to abnormal wear.
2. Notice the Additive package (Magnesium, Calcium, Phosphorus, Zinc). These numbers are just plain exceptional given the mileage on the car. So we know that what ever was the cause of the viscosity rise did not affect the additive package. Magnesium and Calcium counteract the acids formed during the combustion process. Since those numbers are still extremely good, we know that his piston rings are doing a great job as well as the motor as a whole. Phosphorus and Zinc are extreme pressure additives and anti-wear additives. Again, we know the motor is in exceptional shape because these numbers are still really high given the mileage of the oil
3. Nitration and Oxidation numbers are low. This tells that his combustioin by-products are low, yet another indication of the piston ring and PCV valve condition.
The two things that throw up flags for me are obviously the viscosity, way out of where it should be. The TBN level is also lower than I would expect. I would expect it to be around 6.5 or even 7.0 with this mileage on the oil. This lower than normal number tells me that the oil is neutralizing something, but what that is, is not clear.
With the additive package in exceptional shape, the wear numbers extremely low, but viscosity out of spec and tbn low I would have to say that the base oil (which the oil analysis doesnt test) was worn out, again, what wore it out is the question. I would LOVE to see the HT/HS (High Temperature/High Shear) numbers. I think they would tell us what I believe to be true. The oil just fell apart, wouldnt tell us specifically why, but it would at least give us some questions to ask of the people that could tell us.
My opinion on it is that it wasnt any 'one' thing, most likely it was a combination of several things, its just a matter of isolating what those things are. The oil did its job and protected the motor from wear, but whatever it protected the motor from cause the oil to sacrifice itself in that endevour.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
I'd recently, the past month or so, noticed a sharp decline in my MPG.
now that the car is totalled, I'll have to pull a sample out and see what I got.
I have to admit, I am well beyond the life of the oil filter. Time & temperatures have not allowed Dan and I the opportunity to get to his garage and change this out. We were actually going to do this this weekend.
I'm curious to see what effect this had on my engine and if the numbers were similar.
If and once my adjuster deems my car a total loss, my next car is getting changed out to all Amsoil everything immediately. I'll also begin my analysis immediately.
____________________ Get in, Sit down, Shut up and HANG ON!
Good reading. I've used the Series 2000 0w30 in many vehicles including my SVTF which now has 34,000 miles. I have 4,000 miles on this oil change and have never had any of these issues. I am however going to go out shortly and check my oil. I change mine every 7,500 miles including the filter. Maybe it's time to look at the 5W40 or the 5W30 (diesel).
____________________ 02 SVT Focus, CD Silver, No. 2032.
Chelly, if you do pull a sample of your oil for analysis, would you do me a HUGE HUGE favor? Would you have the lab also send me a copy of the analysis. The reason is that Im trying to get a database together of different analysis so I can better trend oil behavior in vehicles. I have a few on the Focus, the vehicle I have the most results for, and I want to get a better understanding of what is happening to the 0W30 in the Focus and why. If you are willing to do that, send me a PM and I'll send over my address.
I havent commented on it in the other thread you posted, but I am glad you are okay, but am terribly sorry for the loss of your car. After crashing my Firebird and then getting rear ended by a dump truck in the car that replaced the Firebird I can tell you from experience you aren't going to do anything but make yourself a bit miserable if you keep replaying it in your head trying to figure out what you could have done differently.
Im thankful very much that you are okay, but I do feel your pain in the loss of your Focus.
Blury, am I understanding you correctly? You are using the 0W30 and you change it out every 7500 miles? If so, may I asky why? Im curious, because for that OCI you could just use the XL line and save a bit of money.
Also, dont be in a hurry to change over to another Amsoil oil. The Series 2000 does seem to be just a tad bit more prone to thickening, but Joe's case is a rather extreme one. I think there is more going on there than meets the eye, but as I mentioned in my post, the information that we have isnt providing any substantial clues. The problem with any oil analysis is that it does not provide you any insight to the base stock of the oil. All that is checked are wear metals, additive package and a few physical properties. Much of what makes the Series 2000 and Series 3000 lubricants so good at what they do you will never see on an analysis. As I mentioned in my last post I think, if it were tested, that the HT/HS numbers would be rather revealing but we just dont have the information.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
"Blurry, am I understanding you correctly? You are using the 0W30 and you change it out every 7500 miles? If so, may I asky why? Im curious, because for that OCI you could just use the XL line and save a bit of money."
The reason I change 7500 miles or less is because the non AMSOIL oil filter I use. My understanding is the SDF-34 is not for the SVTF. I'm trying to get a definitive answer as to whether or not the SDF-34 can be used on the SVT. If it can, then I will use it. I will probably still change my oil every 7500 miles. As I stated, I don't have the means to do my own oil change so if I take it to Jiffy Lube or Mobil and they charge me $49 per oil change or $28 for conventional oil change, I still feel I save using AMSOIL 0W30 and change it 7500 miles.
____________________ 02 SVT Focus, CD Silver, No. 2032.
Wow Blurry, you got to be the extreme case that Ive met when it comes to oil changes even with a long life synthetic.
As for the SDF34, it is safe for the SVTf and for the Zetec. Ive mentioned it before but I used one on my Zetec up until I got the dual remote by-pass filter system. Now Im running a SDF-15 full flow. Furthermore, I have a customer in Tulsa that has a Sonic Blue SVT, 2003. And ever since 3000 miles he has run the XL-7500 5W30 with the SDF34 and hes got probably close to 40k miles now. In addition he is a full time Auto crosser when the season is in and finished first in his class last year, so if there was anyone that would develop problems with an oil or filter mis-match, I figure it would be him.
I also have a customer in Massachusetts that runs the 0W30 in an SVTf and has went the full 35,000 miles using the SDF34.
Remember there are a couple primary concerns when looking at a filter. First would be bypass pressure, that is, at what pressure the oil filter will go into bypass mode due to being clogged up or the oil being too thick to pass through the filter. You dont want too low of a pressure because the filter will never do its job and filter. You dont want a filter that has too high of a pressure because it will starve the motor for oil when it reaches its capacity. There are other concerns such as burst pressure, that is the pressure that will cause the filter to burst open and breach the housing. The SDF34 is suitable for the SVT. Unless they made major changes to the block of the SVTf in 2004 I cant see why the SDF34 would not work as it has in the past.
I cant link to it because of the way the web site is set up, but the Hastings LF483 filter (the recommended filter for the Zetec and others) has a 14 psi ByPass valve which is IDENTICAL to the FL2005 Motorcraft filter recommended by Ford for the SVTf AND the Zetec. This is what originally alerted me to the fact I could use an SDF34 with the Zetec. Ford told me that the FL2005 was recommended for both the SVTf and the Zetec. And the FL2005 crosses to a SDF34 filter.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
Thanks for the info. I've used the SDF-34 on two prior oil changes but was concerned it was not listed on the AMSOIL list. I still have 4,000 miles to go on this oil change...but I will be changing back to the SDF-34 with AMSOIL 0W30. I'm still changing it every 7500 miles though. Thanks again.
Last edited on Tue Jan 25th, 2005 08:09 pm by Blurry
____________________ 02 SVT Focus, CD Silver, No. 2032.
Blurry wrote: Thanks for the info. I've used the SDF-34 on two prior oil changes but was concerned it was not listed on the AMSOIL list. I still have 4,000 miles to go on this oil change...but I will be changing back to the SDF-34 with AMSOIL 0W30. I'm still changing it every 7500 miles though. Thanks again.
Wow Blurry, I'll agree with Daniel on this one. That is one lubed up and clean engine!
now, you just need to give it a bath more often. lol!
____________________ Get in, Sit down, Shut up and HANG ON!
Blurry wrote: Thanks for the info. I've used the SDF-34 on two prior oil changes but was concerned it was not listed on the AMSOIL list. I still have 4,000 miles to go on this oil change...but I will be changing back to the SDF-34 with AMSOIL 0W30. I'm still changing it every 7500 miles though. Thanks again.
Man, I live to have a customer like you Blurry. Id have to give some good discounts to a volume buyer like that using 0W30. Its not a cheap oil, but its definately a good one and for the distance you're going on it your wear numbers ought to be extremely low.
____________________ My car is a synner! It uses Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants.
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
It whines a lot, but I like it
Chelly02 wrote: Blurry wrote: Thanks for the info. I've used the SDF-34 on two prior oil changes but was concerned it was not listed on the AMSOIL list. I still have 4,000 miles to go on this oil change...but I will be changing back to the SDF-34 with AMSOIL 0W30. I'm still changing it every 7500 miles though. Thanks again.
Wow Blurry, I'll agree with Daniel on this one. That is one lubed up and clean engine!
now, you just need to give it a bath more often. lol! You know me Chelly...baths don't cut it with my car....I take it to Ziebart to treat the rustproofing and give me the year long wax job and then I wait for it to rain. I don't have the patience to wash a car....my motto is for every minute used to wash and wax a car, that's time taken away from driving. Anyway...here is a pic from 2 years ago when it was clean...
Last edited on Wed Jan 26th, 2005 06:45 pm by Blurry
____________________ 02 SVT Focus, CD Silver, No. 2032.
SyntheticShield wrote: Blurry wrote: Thanks for the info. I've used the SDF-34 on two prior oil changes but was concerned it was not listed on the AMSOIL list. I still have 4,000 miles to go on this oil change...but I will be changing back to the SDF-34 with AMSOIL 0W30. I'm still changing it every 7500 miles though. Thanks again.
Man, I live to have a customer like you Blurry. Id have to give some good discounts to a volume buyer like that using 0W30. Its not a cheap oil, but its definately a good one and for the distance you're going on it your wear numbers ought to be extremely low. So what kind of a deal can I get from you? How much do I need to order at one time, etc. I think it costs me about $53.00 for 5 quarts of 0w30 and $10 or $12 for the SDF-34...although I haven't bought the filter for almost a year....I'd probably have to pay you $100 just for shipping...
Last edited on Wed Jan 26th, 2005 06:24 pm by Blurry
____________________ 02 SVT Focus, CD Silver, No. 2032.
